Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 909 › Conversation 909-017

Nixon & Rogers on Elliot Richardson and Legal Counsel

Wednesday, May 2, 1973 · 10:24 AM–10:31 AM ET · Oval Office · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Rogers, William P.Conversation909-017 on Tape 909StartWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:24 AMEndWednesday, May 2, 1973 at 10:31 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 909-017 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Secretary of State William P. Rogers to discuss the need for a new legal counsel to handle mounting administrative and legal pressures. The conversation centered on the importance of expressing confidence in Attorney General Elliot Richardson regarding his dealings with the Senate, as well as the search for a seasoned, trusted individual to serve as a personal legal advisor. Nixon expressed urgency in finding a candidate who could operate independently of White House staff to navigate these sensitive government matters.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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I wanted to give you a chance to get some more thought for that little problem.
Right.
I'm trying to get better.
It says independent of the executive branch of Guest Bill or something like that.
If you could possibly...
And what about the, uh, the submission to the Senate, which is bothering me anyway, because he, the kind of man that Elliot would pick would be trying to get by the Senate anyway.
Very good.
Right, right.
Well, would you pass it on to Elliot?
And Elliot, if you'll please take the line on that resolution, it's completely consistent with what he's intended to do.
Instead, it's a confidence in him.
And back then, that's the whole problem.
The resolution was so inanimate, so, so much.
You see, Cummings did indicate a total lack of confidence in Elliott.
That's something that really destroyed him before he ever began.
That's why Elliott was so upset last night.
Incidentally, I was trying to think, Bill, of a council.
You remember Reagan?
to be delivered.
No.
No, I don't think that a prosecutor comes from the White House.
You get somebody there, you know, that has to do the clearances and so forth.
There's some older guy that's, uh, that, uh, I just like somebody that has to be somebody that I know relatively well and somebody that doesn't bother me too much.
But you know what I mean?
Like, uh,
Would you give some thought to that?
I don't want to be too young, but if we could get some, if we could give me a name, for example, I, uh, I asked Jeff, you know, he says he's not a member of 10 boards.
He said, I need to get him off of 10 boards.
And of course, that's the problem.
Of course, this does not require confirmation or anything of that sort.
Would you see some lawyer?
Yeah, we, we could, but it's kind of,
Bill, he just can't cut it financially.
You know, that's his problem.
That's why he left.
You know, I mean, I don't know why.
It seems to be that the company has been very wrong in that respect.
A lease of absence and so forth.
Of course.
Right.
Right.
Well,
Well, we don't have any time.
Is somebody around here going to grab the authority?
No, I don't think so.
Yeah?
Oh, no.
Oh, no, no, no.
I mean, he could bring in a comment or something like that.
Why didn't I send that bill?
No.
One of the reasons I need a counsel very soon is that I've got to get Len off his other things.
I mean, he's got a lot of other things in the government.
I just need a...
I need a...
I need a good...
But I think somebody totally, you know, just frankly is a very confident fellow.
In other words, Charlie Ryan would come so much.
Okay?
Well, we don't have any time.
Did somebody run here for the grant of authority?
No, I don't think so.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
Oh, no, no, no.
I don't mean you couldn't bring in a comment or something like that.
Why didn't I send that bill?
No.
One of the reasons I need a counsel very soon is that I've got to get Len off to use other things for him.
He's done a lot of other things in the last hour and a half.
He should be good.
He should get good.
But I think somebody totally, you know, just frankly is a very confident fellow.
In other words, Charlie Ryan is a confident one.
And what about the, well, the summation of the Senate doesn't bother me anyway, because he, the kind of man that Elliot picked would be trying to get by the Senate anyway.
Very good.
Right, right.
Well, would you pass it on to Elliot?
And Elliot, if you take the line on that resolution, it's completely consistent with what he's intended to do.
That is a confidence in him.
And that's the whole problem.
The resolution was so, so, so much.
Is he coming to the dead?
It indicated a total lack of confidence in Elliot.
That's something that really needs to be struggled before he ever began.
That's why Elliot was so upset last night.
to be good or... No.
No, I don't think a special prosecutor comes from the White House.
You get somebody here, you know, that has to do the clearances and so forth.
There's some older guy that's, uh...
I just like somebody that has to be somebody that I know relatively well and somebody that doesn't bother me too much.
But you know what I mean, like, uh...
Would you hear some thought to that?
I don't want anyone to do me harm, but if we could get some, if we could give me a name to lie, for example, I, uh, I've asked Jeff Buehler to take me to him.
He says he's not a member of 10th Ward.
He said, I need to take me off of 10th Ward.
And, of course, that's the problem.
Of course, this does not require confirmation or anything of that sort.
Would you see some lawyer?
Yeah, we, we could, but it's kind of,
Billy just can't cut a financial committee.
You know, that's his problem.
That's why he left.
He just, you know, I mean, he's, I don't know why it seems to be that the government company has done very wrong with that respect.
I'm pleased with that and so forth.
Of course.
Right.
Right.
But we don't have any cash.
Is somebody around here going to grab the authority?
No, I don't think so.
Yeah?
Oh, no.
Oh, no, no, no.
I don't mean he couldn't bring in a company or something like that.
Why didn't I send that bill?
No.
One of the reasons, I need a council jury.
Somebody said, I've got to get Len off his other things.
You know, he's done a lot of other things.
And Len Harmon and I, I just need to get him good.
But I think somebody totally, you know, just frankly is a very confident fellow.
In other words, Charlie Ryan would come so much.
Okay?

NARA Description

On May 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:24 am to 10:31 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 909-017 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 909-17

Date: May 2, 1973
Time: 10:24 am - 10:31 am
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with William P. Rogers.

[See Conversation No. 45-137]

Also recorded on May 2, 1973

  • 045-135 10:14 AM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Julie Nixon Eisenhower talked on the telephone from 10:14 am to 10:15 am.
  • 909-015 10:15 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:15 am to 10:21 am.
  • 045-136 10:21 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:21 am and 10:24 am.
  • 909-016 10:21 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:21 am and 10:24 am.
  • 045-137 10:24 AM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 10:24 am to 10:31 am.
  • 045-138 10:31 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.
  • 909-018 10:31 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.
  • 909-019 10:31 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:31 am and 10:43 am.

All 82 conversations from May 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 909-017, May 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/909-017 (accessed October 5, 2026).