Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 23 › Conversation 023-152

Nixon phone call with Moore on J. Edgar Hoover and L. Patrick Gray III

Thursday, May 4, 1972 · 2:51 PM–2:57 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Moore, Richard A.Conversation023-152 on Tape 23StartThursday, May 4, 1972 at 2:51 PMEndThursday, May 4, 1972 at 2:57 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 023-152 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417193589 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon directed Richard A. Moore to facilitate a media strategy following the death of J. Edgar Hoover to distance the administration from L. Patrick Gray III. Nixon instructed Moore to place a human-interest story emphasizing the deep, 25-year personal friendship between Nixon and Hoover to contrast it with his purely professional, non-personal relationship with Gray. The President also ordered a total media blackout regarding CBS reporters, specifically citing animosity toward the network.

Audio

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NARA Description

On May 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Richard A. Moore talked on the telephone from 2:51 pm to 2:57 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-152 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 23-152

Date: May 4, 1972
Time: 2:51-2:57 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Richard A. Moore.

[See also Conversation No. 334-41]

     J. Edgar Hoover
           -Story
                -John A. Scali
                -Leak to networks
                      -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                      -National Broadcasting Company [NBC] and American Broadcasting
                            Company [ABC]
                -Leak to wire services
                      -Ronald L. Ziegler
                -L. Patrick Gray III's wife
                      -Question for the President
                      -Work for Committee to Reelect the President [CRP]
                            -Time reporter, Bonnie Angelo
                            -Resignation
          -Replacement
                -Dan Rather
                      -Meeting with Ziegler
                      -Talks with CBS
                -Questions
                      -Friendship with the President
                            -Gray
                                  -Arthur W. Radford
                                  -National Security Council [NSC]
                            -Length
                            -Meetings with the President
                      -The President's views of Hoover
                      -Personal friendship of the President and Hoover
                            -Christmas gifts
                            -Birthdays
                            -California
                           -Florida
                           -Camp David
                           -Sequoia
                           -Horse races
                           -Dwight D. Eisenhower
               -Gray
          -Closeness to the President
               -First name basis
               -Relationship with Gray

     The President's friendships in government
          -William P. Rogers
          -Relationship with Hoover
               -Length of friendship
          -Gray
               -Relationship
                      -Non-political appointment

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I had a story that I think would be very good to get out.
I want you to handle it.
You can talk to Scali and tell him he can use it with either of the two networks, not CBS because Hoover hated them with an utter passion, but he could do it too with either NBC or ABC if he knows anybody that would
use it right it's a little human interest thing and then with a uh with a wire service you can uh talk to uh Ziegler about uh how to do it I mean maybe he'll want to put out something what triggered me on it was that uh when uh Pat Gray came in today his wife asked me a question she said uh first there were two there were two things actually she said that
You know, I had volunteered at the re-elected president thing, and I'm expecting to see somebody from Time magazine in Bonangelo this afternoon.
I wonder what I should do about it.
I said, you should by all means resign.
I said, you should point out that the president suggested that you do that because Mr. Hoover had always stayed
totally above or beyond partisan politics.
And so, of course, that line is a good one.
The second point, however, is more subtle and perhaps better yet.
Dan Rather was in to see Ziegler and was, according to Gray, and was pumping him about what about Nixon appointing a personal friend and crony and so forth to the FBI.
And I said, well,
First of all, that under no circumstances should he ever, Ziegler should not have talked to Rather, and nobody in this staff should ever talk to anybody from CBS.
That's an order from now on.
It's good to be done.
Good.
Now, the second point, though, I should, when you're asked the question, I said, here's the thing to say.
Yes, I'm a very, I've long been a professional worker with, co-worker with the president when I was assistant to Admiral Radford in the NSC days.
and, of course, the Justice Department.
But I said, as distinguished from Mr. Hoover, I've never been one of his personal friends.
He said, Mr. Hoover and the President were very close personal friends for 25 years.
And you can point out that Hoover and I exchange, we always exchange Christmas gifts, that he's spent many birthdays at our house, either in California, at Key Biscayne, where we often met in Florida, or at the White House.
He's been to Camp David.
He's been on the Sequoia.
in other words that we've been to the races together in other words and then I think you could go on to say that the relationship between President Nixon and Mr. Hoover going back 25 years was a that was a very close personal relationship and that the President considered Hoover among all of his government associates to be his closest personal friend
Now, that includes Eisenhower.
It includes anybody in the Congress.
I have no others, you know, with whom I have done all these things.
See what I mean?
Yes, I do indeed.
So he's a very close personal friend.
Now, you see, that does two things.
First, it points out the close personal friendship with Hoover, which is now done.
Nobody can squeal about that.
Right.
But it also points out the fact that Gray's connection with the president is totally different.
Hoover and I were on a first-name basis.
I said, Gray, you can tell him that.
I said, and as you know, you and I are not on a first-name basis.
He says, I'm well aware of that.
You mean, sir, up to and including these days?
I mean, of course, all the time you were vice president, you were Dick to him.
Yeah, I was Dick.
No, as president, he always... As vice president.
As vice president, he would call me Dick.
Uh-huh.
But as president, that was the only time he went into the Mr. President drill.
But it was first names for 20 years.
It was first name until I became president.
And I always called him Edgar, of course, but most people did that.
My point is that we were...
The only time we were not in first-name basis was after I became president.
But on the others, I mean, my relationship with Gray is a professional relationship, one of mutual respect only, whereas my relationship with Hoover was personal on a very close, and that he was my best personal friend in government, in government, of all the government people I've known.
That is quite a pretty strong statement.
Well, who else can you name?
Well, I mean, people will think of Bill Rogers or... Rogers?
Oh, Christ.
I mean, I don't exchange Christmas gifts with Rogers.
I mean, I haven't...
I've seen Hoover maybe ten times as much as I've seen Rogers.
See my point?
Right.
I do, indeed.
See, Hoover and I... And it goes back further.
Someone asked me...
This goes back to 1947.
My God, we've been...
I know.
I assumed you met when you were a young congressman.
That's right.
Doing his case.
Yes, I would.
But you see, we've done, we've been to each other's houses, we've done this and that, and he's been my closest, my longest, closest personal friend.
That, I get it.
But you see, the reason I'm doing this is not to build up the Hoover relationship, but more to build up the fact that Gray is not.
I understand.
And that Gray is versed nonpolitical by my direction, and second, that it's not personal.
I have no personal relationship with him, whatever, as a matter of fact.
As a matter of fact, he said that to me yesterday.
That's right.
One of mutual respect, but not personal, because I don't have personal relationships with people that I work with.
That's just my rule.
Right, right.
Okay?
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your good name.
Okay, bye.

Also recorded on May 4, 1972

  • 334-041 2:51 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Richard A. Moore met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:51 pm to 2:57 pm.
  • 334-042 2:57 PM · 43 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:57 pm and 3:02 pm.
  • 334-043 2:57 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ray Conniff, Alexander P. Butterfield, and White House photographer met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:57 pm and 3:03 pm.
  • 023-153 3:04 PM · 8 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:04 pm and 3:44 pm.
  • 023-154 3:04 PM · 31 sec — the White House operator, Henry A. Kissinger, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:04 pm and 3:44 pm.
  • 023-155 3:04 PM · 2 min — the White House operator, Henry A. Kissinger, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:04 pm and 3:44 pm.
  • 023-156 3:04 PM · 18 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:04 pm and 3:44 pm.
  • 023-157 3:04 PM · 17 sec — Henry A. Kissinger and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:04 pm and 3:44 pm.

All 45 conversations from May 4, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 023-152, May 4, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417193589). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-152 (accessed November 2, 2026).