Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 24 › Conversation 024-162

Nixon phone call with Connally on Foreign travel and International relations

Friday, May 19, 1972 · 3:49 PM–3:59 PM ET · White House Telephone · 10 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Connally, John B.Conversation024-162 on Tape 24 (tape position 04:03:59–04:13:47)StartFriday, May 19, 1972 at 3:49 PMEndFriday, May 19, 1972 at 3:59 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 024-162 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 646314640 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John B. Connally discuss the logistics and itinerary for Connally's upcoming three-week overseas trip to South America, Australia, and New Zealand. The President instructs Connally to travel via a presidential aircraft with a small staff and emphasizes the importance of keeping planning restricted to a select few to avoid bureaucratic interference. Additionally, they discuss the transition of Treasury responsibilities to George P. Shultz, with Nixon confirming that Shultz will assume the same high-level portfolios and economic authorities previously held by Connally.

Audio

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NARA Description

On May 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 3:49 pm to 3:59 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 024-162 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 24-162

Date: May 19, 1972
Time: 3:49 pm - 3:59 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John B. Connally.

[See also Conversation No. 339-30B]

     Connally's trip to Latin America
         -Departure
                -Timing
                       -The President's trip
         -Itinerary
                -Henry A. Kissinger
                -Colombia
                -Brazil
                -Argentina
                -Peru
                -New Zealand
                -Australia
                -Stopover elsewhere
                       -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                       -India
                       -Pakistan
                       -Connally’s view
                       -Saudi Arabia
                       -Egypt
                       -African and Arabian Countries
                             -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                       -Morocco
                       -Tunisia
                       -Portugal
                       -Spain
                       -Ethiopia
         -Plans
                -Length of stay in each nation
                       -Brazil
                             -Brasilia
                             -Amazon Highway

                          -Sao Paolo
                          -Tour of country
                          -Connally’s view
Show the rest of the log (80 more lines)
               -The President's plane
                    -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                    -Passengers
                          -Idanell B. (“Nellie”) Connally
                          -Staff
                                -Number
                                -National Security Council [NSC]
                                -State Department
                                -Treasury Department

    Treasury Department
         -George P. Shultz
              -Confirmation
              -Acting secretary
              -Work with Connally

    Connally's trip
        -Length
        -Australia
        -Itinerary
               -Australia
                    -Return to Washington , DC
               -Previous trip
                    -Indonesia
                    -Bangkok
                    -Saigon
                    -Philippines
                    -Saigon
                          -Length of previous trip
               -Singapore
                    -The Vice President
                    -Lee Kuan Yew
               -Plans

    The President's press briefing

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 59s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

*****************************************************************

    Connally's trip
        -Value
               -Nellie Connally
        -South America
        -Australia
        -New Zealand
        -British
        -Australia
               -Compared with Texas
        -Plans
               -Meeting with the President and Haldeman

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 16s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

*****************************************************************

    Connally's meeting with Shultz
        -Kissinger
        -Shultz
               -NSC
                    -Necessity

                      -International Monetary Fund [IMF]
                      -World Bank
                 -Responsibilities
                      -The President’s view
                      -Cost of Living Council [COLC]
                      -Arthur F. Burns

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Secretary Connolly.
Hello.
How do sir?
I've had a chance to think about your trip, John, and if you could sort of make some mental notes.
All right, sir.
I think you should leave about the day after I get back.
All right, sir.
Now, I'll tell you why.
I'll be back, and then it's hot news, you know, that you're going out to report.
Yes, sir.
I think you should go to four countries in Latin America now by the time when we start.
We're just keeping this between you and me and Henry at this point because I don't want State to start adding all those.
Chicken little countries down there, you see.
Yes, sir.
But Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, if that meets with your approval.
Yes, sir.
That's fine.
Now, I think if we can work it out logistically, that it would be useful for you then to flip on over and do New Zealand and Australia.
All right.
Now, the only other possibility, and I haven't been able to, Henry, to sit down.
Henry, we've been just like, you know, getting my books together.
I know you.
To see if there was a place that you could stop further on around, so you go on around the world, you see, rather than coming around.
Yes, sir.
You wouldn't mind doing that, would you?
Oh, of course not.
I just don't know.
I mean, you might see... See, Agnew's done...
I don't want you doing those countries.
The only ones, unfortunately, hold your breath are India and Pakistan.
I don't think you want to go there, do you?
Well, I don't mind.
I don't mind going to India, boy.
Don't bother me.
Wouldn't bother me in the least to go to either one of them.
Well, if it would be useful to us.
Or Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or any of the Arab countries.
The trouble with Egypt, we don't have diplomatic relations.
Saudi Arabia, I think Agnew's done.
Africa means Nixon's down.
No, no, she did the black Africa.
That's right.
Now, on the other hand, it might be that we might want you to do a place like Morocco.
Morocco would be fine.
Morocco, Tunisia.
Or Portugal.
Or Spain.
Yeah.
Ethiopia.
Let me see.
Ethiopia might be an idea.
I'll check that out, too.
Well, anyway, I just want you to know to plan that.
Now, figuring your plan, I think you've got to spend two days in each country.
And my view is that I would try to spend...
a couple days in each country, but I would spend three days in Brazil.
So you do Brasilia, and then I think you ought to tell them you'd like to fly over or at least see the new Amazon Highway and then get down around San Paolo, the big city, and look at that project.
I'm still counting on you to come up with a deal.
Yeah, I understand.
I'll tell you, I want to get out.
I'm going to.
I want to spend at least one day
with somebody looking over the country for that very reason.
You can do some private checking with your friends as a place to go.
I will.
But what we'll do, incidentally, I'm just talking to Bob here, and he won't be here to work it out, but I want you to take one of our presidential planes.
I'd be wonderful.
Take the number two plane, so-called.
and take Nellie, and then I think you ought to take a little staff, although I wouldn't take too many, they bother you, but you might want to take somebody from the NSC staff, somebody from State, and frankly, somebody from Treasury.
Now, if Schultz is not confirmed, I talked to George today, and I told him I think it's a new trip, I don't think that makes any difference.
For this reason, I think that
I think that what we can say, in effect, is that, well, after all, Schultz is now in.
He can be acting.
Oh, I don't think of that.
And do you agree?
Yes, yes.
Because you really will have finished all you have to do with Schultz.
See, you've got 10 days now to do that.
Right.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
That'll be no problem.
And that'll run from about the second you've got a figure.
I think you're looking...
Figuring travel time at a two and a half to three weeks.
Three weeks.
Looks like about three weeks.
Right.
Right.
With that plane, it'll be damn comfortable.
That'd be great.
Okay.
I would like going around the world.
You know, it would make sense.
From Australia, heck, I'd like to go.
Well, if you go to Australia, it doesn't really make a hell of a lot of sense to come back here.
No?
See?
Well, it does.
It's a little shorter to come back here than it is.
Because, you see, you've got to come back here to report to me at the end.
Right.
So you've got to come to Washington.
If you were coming to Texas, then it would be...
just about better to come in a little, not much, because Australia is just way to hell and gone.
Yes, I know it.
And so now you've already done Indonesia, Bangkok, all those countries.
Saigon.
Saigon you've done.
Philippines.
Although we were there only two or three hours.
How much did you do in Saigon?
We were there for a couple of days in Saigon.
Mm-hmm.
If you want to go back to Saigon, it suits me fine.
Well, I just might have that in mind, too.
It just might be useful at that point.
If he didn't hit, if the vice president didn't hit Singapore...
uh singapore yeah we might hit singapore i didn't hit it before and that's right you've got great respect for him and he's one of them on you yeah he's a bright leader but it's a little country so to make a difference oh no it doesn't know that yeah all right well there's the uh there's what i have in mind i just wanted you to have well who with whom can i work because if i have to leave the next day we're gonna have to do some schedule well i will tell you john i'll get together
I've got to go over now and brief the leaders, and then I've got to go brief the damn press, and then, uh, uh, tonight.

— 2 min 0 s with no transcribed speech —

But this trip will be a very, very good thing for the country, and I think you and Nellie will enjoy it.
We'll enjoy it.
And I deliberately don't want you to schedule yourself too hard.
You know what I mean?
The South Americans, as you know, they wear you out.
Oh, I know.
But the Australians are great.
The New Zealanders are great.
They have the British type of thing where you get in at a reasonable time.
And, God, you're going to love Australia.
It has a great feeling of Texas, you know?
Yes, I know it.
I've never been there.
You'll go out and look at that country, and you'll think, by God, I ought to have a ranch there, too.
Okay.
Yeah, that's what I want.
I know.
All right.
But I'll be in touch with you, or Bob will be tonight or tomorrow morning beforehand.
Fair enough?
Yes, sir.
All right.
All right, John.
How are you getting along with Schultz?
Are you all right?
Oh, sure.
Oh, one thing.
I had a good talk with him.
I hope you will tell him and tell Henry before you go, regardless of what you want to do in your new administration, you ought to...
to name George on the National Security Council for the remaining six months.
I told him that today.
All right, that's great.
I know.
Well, it really makes sense because he's got to know what goes on.
See, he's trying to direct and should try to direct all these international institutions like the IMF, World Bank, and so forth.
Well, he raised it, and I said, in effect, John, I told him, I said,
You are going to have all the responsibilities that Connolly had.
Good.
We can't have him do anything else.
No, that's right.
Because otherwise it downgrades him and makes him appear that we had one man and a job.
Don't you agree?
I couldn't agree more.
So I said you're the head of the Cost of Living Council.
You're the chief economic spokesman.
Right.
You're the care and keeper of Arthur Burns.
Yes, sir.
And just like you've been caring and keeping him.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
Very wise.
All right.
All right, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.

Also recorded on May 19, 1972

  • 024-160 3:20 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 3:20 pm to 3:25 pm.
  • 339-029 3:20 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:20 pm to 3:25 pm.
  • 024-161 3:25 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:25 pm and 3:49 pm.
  • 339-030 3:25 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and John B. Connally met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:25 pm to 4:03 pm.
  • 726-013 4:05 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Robert C. Byrd, John D. Ehrlichman, Clark MacGregor, White House photographer, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:05 pm to 4:13 pm.
  • 101-010 4:13 PM · 1 hr 12 min — Richard M. Nixon and bipartisan Congressional leaders, including Clinton P. Anderson, Robert P. Griffin, Robert C. Byrd, Norris Cotton, J. William Fulbright, Warren G. ("Maggie") Magnuson, Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield, John C. Stennis, John G. Tower, Milton R. Young, Page Belcher, Gerald R. Ford, Craig Hosmer, George H. Mahon, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, Peter M. Flanigan, Richard K. Cook, Thomas C. Korologos, John A. Scali, William P. Rogers, Helmut ("Hal") Sonnenfeldt, the White House photographer, and members of the press, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 4:13 pm and 11:59 pm.
  • 101-011 5:23 PM · 13 min — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:23 pm on May 19, 1972 and 8:01 am on June 13, 1972.
  • 101-012 5:23 PM — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 5:23 pm on May 19, 1972 and 8:01 am on June 13, 1972.

All 47 conversations from May 19, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 024-162, May 19, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 646314640). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/024-162 (accessed November 1, 2026).