Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 39 › Conversation 039-071

Nixon phone call with Ziegler on Watergate and John W. Dean III

Monday, June 4, 1973 · 1:29 PM–1:36 PM ET · White House Telephone ·6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation039-071 onTape 39StartMonday, June 4, 1973 at 1:29 PMEndMonday, June 4, 1973 at 1:36 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 039-071 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discussed the administration's strategy for managing the ongoing Watergate investigation and related press inquiries. The pair reviewed the status of documents detailing Nixon's past meetings with John W. Dean III, with Nixon emphasizing that these discussions did not involve a cover-up until March 21, 1973. Additionally, they coordinated the public messaging regarding Henry Kissinger's upcoming trip to Paris and the administration’s efforts to counter negative media narratives and political attacks.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Are you surviving today?
Oh, yes, sir.
Yeah.
You didn't brief, huh?
No, Jerry briefed and did very well.
Good.
And I think we have a little bit confused.
Well, just, you know, the way we're handling ourselves.
And Jerry was very calm.
And, you know, they spent all their time on that Dean story.
No, no, not all their time.
A portion of it they asked the questions that we would expect.
the logs and whether or not they were subject to subpoena.
And we said the same thing as we said before.
No, it would be constitutionally inappropriate.
But then went on to say that the men would testify.
You see what I mean?
Oh, yes.
He pointed that the people involved would testify.
Sure.
That's right.
But that was really it.
He didn't go too long with about 40 minutes.
He had some other announcements to make and so forth.
Right.
I feel good.
I think the...
The sentiment is kind of shifting around.
Some good columns today.
Really?
I guess Saffar had a good one.
Joe Alsop had a good one.
So that's where we are.
Ron, don't you have the list of the times that I saw Dean and so forth?
I went over that with Al, yes, sir.
Would you mind taking it into Steve?
He needs it.
We've just given that material to him, sir.
He said he didn't have it.
I just called him.
you know what I mean, the times that I saw this clown, you know what I mean?
You sure you gave it to Steve?
Well, I gave it to Al to give to him, but I'll go double-check with Steve right now.
Yeah, so that he doesn't have to get it from others.
I just told him, I said, well, you have to call Bob Haldeman, because I know he's got it.
But if you've got the list, get the goddamn thing in to him, would you please?
Oh, sure.
Yes, sir.
I sure will.
You know, I've been reconstructing my own notes here, because I've made a few, of course.
And as you know, there was absolutely no meetings in January, as I told you.
The first one was actually on the 27th, not the 28th.
Was it true?
There was one on the 27th, the brief one, 20 minutes or so, and one on the 28th, and two on the 1st.
But I can—absolutely nothing on cover-up.
Absolutely nothing.
I never suspected there was.
I don't know what the hell he's talking about now.
I haven't gotten into the March stuff.
And when you get to March 21st, that's the first time that he came in and crapped around about that.
But he may have something in there.
But it was about executive privilege and Pat Gray.
You know what I mean?
Well, that's the type of thing we were talking about.
And, you know, trying to get some information on the bugging of my plane.
Sure.
And checking the FBI leaks was felt leaking.
Right.
And he was doing that.
Yeah.
had an even long conversation about judges and the need for better judges and so forth and so on, and raising hell about a few of them.
A lot of stuff like that, but he doesn't have a goddamn thing in that respect.
So we're into March in any event.
I thought you'd be interested in that.
There's absolutely nothing in January, nothing in February.
And nothing until the first of March.
Now, if it's in March,
I think we're pretty much home free.
Yeah, but I don't even think it'll be in there.
I don't think if you reconstruct this— There may be.
I wouldn't be— You know, he may have raised, for example—on one thing—he may have raised the possibility is that he might have talked about Haldeman's 350 before the 21st.
I'll go out on a limb and admit that he didn't.
I know.
I have a sort of feeling that he could have.
Maybe in a passing context, but I'll—
But he didn't say, but he didn't indicate, he didn't go into great, I don't know, but he may have talked about Ehrlichman talking to Kambach about raising money.
But let me say, it was in the month of March.
Right, then we're safe there.
That's the damn thing.
Sure.
Our statement was, and then on the 21st he came in and said they were blackmailing, but that was the first time he ever said that.
Sure do.
I don't know what the hell, let's talk about chronology and taping.
Well, I'm sure, I'll stand by my sensitivity of last night, and that is once now, as he's doing, checks those dates in the files, that they'll find that he doesn't have anything like that.
Well, he doesn't have anything like he says he has, right?
Thirty-five meetings we met for the purpose of...
talking about cover-up.
On executive privilege, we were talking about, for Christ's sake, don't get our people down in a circus and that sort of thing.
That's right.
And when I was talking, you were asking me, should they be televised or not?
I was against television.
That's right.
It was that type of thing that doesn't relate to cover-up.
Right, right.
Okay.
We're going to announce Henry's trip to Paris this afternoon.
And if you still approve, I would go.
I approve it totally.
I think it's a very good idea.
Change of pace.
And when will you be back?
He'll be there.
Well, he's there.
Right.
We'll be back Friday, I believe.
I'll come down to Florida.
That's good.
Good.
Well, as Al said, I think they had orchestrated our whole attack this week.
I mean, they threw that jackass Clifford in.
Wasn't that something?
The President should resign.
They threw McCloskey in.
They printed the Memcons, the Walters Memcons, which we knew were going to come out.
But we've certainly pulled a lot of the teeth out of that, don't you think so?
Yes, absolutely.
That's a tough story.
But, you know, when you read it, that damn thing, it does look—you know, the president says that they've arrested five, and we shouldn't go beyond that or something.
I mean, words don't really say that, but—
The Palderman and Ehrlichman, in their testimony, totally defused that.
They point out that we didn't want to get screwing around with the CIA.
Right.
Right.
Well, we can live with that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm sure that list gets into Steve.
I'm going to take it right now, sir.
Right.

NARA Description

On June 4, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 1:29 pm to 1:36 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 039-071 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 39-71

Date: June 4, 1973
Time: 1:29 pm - 1:36 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

[See also Conversation No. 442-21]

       Watergate
             -Press briefing, June 4
                     -Gerald L. Warren
                     -Questions
                             -John W. Dean, III
                             -Subpoena of logs
                             -Forthcoming testimony
                     -Other announcements
             -Columns, June 4
                     -William L. Safire
                     -Joseph W. Alsop
             -President’s meetings with Dean
                     -Chronology
                             -Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and Stephen B. Bull
                                     -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                             -February 27, February 28, and March 1, 1973 meetings
                     -Content
                             -Cover-up
                     -Meeting, March 21
                     -Content
                             -Executive privilege
                             -L[ouis] Patrick Gray III
                             -Bugging of President’s plane in 1968
                             -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] leaks
                                     -W. Mark Felt
                             -Judges
                             -Haldeman and $350,000
                             -John D. Ehrlichman’s conversation with Herbert W. Kalmbach
                                             -54-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. February-2011)

                                     -Fundraising
              -Dean
                      -Statements
                      -Files
                             -Haig’s examination
                      -Meetings with President
                             -Content
                                    -Executive privilege
                                    -Cover-up
                                    -Ervin Committee hearings

       Henry A. Kissinger’s trip to Paris
             -Announcement
             -Ziegler’s schedule

       Watergate
             -Attacks on President
                    -Haig’s comment
                    -Clark M. Clifford’s statement regarding the President’s resignation
                    -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.
                    -Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters’s memoranda of conversation [memcons]
                           -Consideration of Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] involvement
                           -Testimony by Haldeman and Ehrlichman

              -Chronology of President’s conversations with Dean

Also recorded on June 4, 1973

  • 039-067 1:23 PM · 1 min — White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 1:23 pm to 1:25 pm.
  • 039-068 1:25 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:25 pm and 1:26 pm.
  • 442-018 1:25 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:25 pm and 1:26 pm.
  • 039-069 1:26 PM · 59 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 1:26 pm to 1:27 pm.
  • 442-019 1:26 PM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:26 pm to 1:27 pm.
  • 039-070 1:29 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at 1:29 pm.
  • 442-020 1:29 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 1:29 pm.
  • 442-021 1:29 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:29 pm to 1:36 pm.

All 103 conversations from June 4, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 039-071, June 4, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/039-071 (accessed September 18, 2026).