Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 201 › Conversation 201-009

Nixon, Haldeman & Sanchez on George McGovern and Presidential Debates

Saturday, August 12, 1972 · 8:50 PM–10:35 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Sanchez, ManoloConversation201-009 on Tape 201StartSaturday, August 12, 1972 at 8:50 PMEndSaturday, August 12, 1972 at 10:35 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 201-009 ↗

AI Summary

In this recording, President Nixon dictates a series of memoranda to H. R. Haldeman regarding various administrative and political matters, including scheduling logistics and personnel concerns at HUD. The President outlines a strategy to challenge George McGovern’s call for debates by highlighting McGovern's past contradictory stance on presidential debates during the 1964 election. Additionally, Nixon instructs Haldeman to develop a media narrative emphasizing his personal commitment to unscheduled, direct public contact as a safer and more effective alternative to the guarded approach taken by his predecessor, Lyndon B. Johnson.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 6 minutes of this recording (about 52% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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ran up the hall for the Hall of the Pile.
The Elk Pips, the barber, has indicated a couple of occasions that he's very glad to go to Florida.
He can't paint.
That is so expensive.
Apparently he has a brother who lives in Miami.
He would like to go on a visit to one of the buildings.
I think we have a rule.
We might have a break before we go down on one of the times.
It's not fine.
We should not have to keep going down for the purpose of the services we make.
But, uh, we just have been invited to come to office because of his liable service, uh, to the president and the White House staff.
Long chance.
And we, uh, need him when I'm there.
Of course, we could use him.
Although, I have, uh, no expectation, whatever, that that would be the case.
Follow this up any way you want.
Don't discuss it any further.
Also, with regard to Ehrlichman, would you indicate to him that I bet that they're going to handle it the wrong way?
That it might be disgusting to him that there's a case with Ronnie?
I voted for the governor.
I was curious as to whether my directing was several weeks ago that someone in the press, and lacking that, someone writing him a letter or some friendly person putting in, questioning members of the staff,
wouldn't confront him with how he voted in 1964 on the Mansfield motion, which proposed the repeal of 350 on the ground as Mansfield put it.
That quote, no president should debate this quote.
This point has not been made in any public forum that I know of.
Colson has been so busy with the Democrats in connection, he has not followed up on any of the law I indicated, but I thought it was quite important to show how he has turned 180 degrees around on this.
I want you to follow up on Colson, and if any other way to see things.
Thanks to Dale McEverett.
purely political, to make the debate challenging.
To be honest, since he had taken exactly the other position in 1924, and Johnson was the candidate, and also the president, it would change my position.
But, I'm glad for you to say that I've changed, because having come to the presidency,
I realize that with all the sensitivity of the nation, sensitivity that you're discussing with warm heart, it would not serve and it would be injurious to the national interest of any for the president to debate this at all.
It's important to hear what happens in following up on this project.
Also, all of the discussions earlier,
Robert's recommendation was that I go to Wilkes-Barre.
This seems to me to be a very stupid suggestion as of this time.
I'm going to run to what Robert ran into in the space after the convention.
Particularly after we have a bunch of cargo teams who have had to go forward with that plan.
I'm going to go to the others.
I'm scheduled.
I'm in the area.
uh
Okay, now take those two tapes over to the mural.
And would you just, do we have to get these up here?
Yes, sir.
Can I get a couple more of those?
Yes, sir.
It has occurred to me that we should begin now on a script which will tend to assist your purposes in reversing the universe, and to downgrade another's quote for angry end quote, which suppresses our perception of what we want to be called.
What?
What?
What?
more contact with people than any man with every certain presence.
In particular, compared to my actions, the situation we found in 1968 when Johnson was virtually a prisoner in the White House, the possibility of violence, and he pushed to go into the country was great.
My forays around the White House, to watch for the creatures of the military,
Should not go unnoticed.
And laying the groundwork for this.
Third, what needs to be done here is to get out a story.
Which will be brought to the searchlight for stuff.
R.N.S.D.
doing person-to-person work, not only in 50 states, but in blind countries as we continue to do so.
Very, very, very good.
I know that some will say that the people that like this because of their concern about security and reverence.
We both know, we all know that the
Incidents like reverence occur when there are scheduled stops.
They do not occur when the stops are unscheduled.
The unscheduled has got to stop, which I have always insisted upon.
Read my chapter, Caracas, Six Crises.
All right, that's on Lima.
And then there in the section on Lima, Peru.
And on Caracas.
that it was my decisions.
Or Kate's patterns.
With the demonstrators off balance.
And which at least in practice probably have the effect of saving my life.
I think it will be rather easy to get this point across.
because people are going to be asking about the brimmer.
Great.
I think we should build it up to an extent that threats all the time.
The president insists that that may not rash, but we still have the opportunity to meet people throughout the country.
I'd like to do this anyway, instead of making a virtue out of it, rather than running into what we get out of it in the press.
We did so, but I did so, in order to answer McCartney's attack.
And, uh, I had no such a policy as far as I was concerned.
I'm reporting on board.
How do you take care of the purpose or direction?

NARA Description

On August 12, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 10:35 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 201-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 201-9

Date: August 12, 1972
Time: Unknown between 8:50 am and 10:35 am
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

The President dictated a memorandum to H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 24m 44s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

     Milton Pitts's schedule
          -Arrangements for Florida trip
                -Brother
                -Transportation

     Secretary of Housing and Urban Development [HUD] position
          -John D. Ehrlichman
                -George W. Romney
                     -Richard C. Van Dusen
                     -Tenure

     George S. McGovern’s challenge to debate the President
         -Press
               -McGovern's New England trip
         -1964 Michael J. Mansfield motion vote
               -Section 315 of the Communications Act of 1934
                -Charles W. Colson's schedule

                     -Democrats for Nixon
          -Lyndon B. Johnson
          -The President’s view

     The President's schedule
          -Ehrlichman
          -Possible trip to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
                -Romney
                -The President’s view
                      -Frank C. Carlucci
                      -Republican National Convention

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 19s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

*****************************************************************

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 8:50 am.

     Dictabelt tapes
          -Beverly J. Kaye

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 12m 31s ]

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 10:35 am.

The President resumed dictating at an unknown time after 8:50 pm.

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

*****************************************************************

     Press coverage
          -The President's contact with the public
                -McGovern
                -The President’s visits to fifty states
                     -Security
                 -Compared to other Presidents
                     -Johnson
                 -Forays out of the White House
                 -Need for story regarding the President's travels
                 -Unscheduled stops
                     -Arthur H. Bremer
                     -Compared to scheduled stops
                          -Bremer
                     -Six Crises
                          -The President's previous trip to Caracas, Venezuela
                          -Lima, Peru
                     -Bremer
                 -McGovern
                 -Report request

Also recorded on August 13, 1972

  • 201-011 8:50 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 10:35 pm.
  • 201-012 8:50 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 8:50 pm and 10:35 pm.
  • 137-009 9:18 AM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:18 am and 9:38 am.
  • 199-002 9:18 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:18 am and 9:38 am.
  • 137-010 9:38 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at Camp David from 9:38 am to 9:45 am.
  • 199-003 9:38 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David from 9:38 am to 9:45 am.
  • 199-004 9:45 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 9:53 am.
  • 137-011 9:53 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at 9:53 am.

All 29 conversations from August 13, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 201-009, August 13, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/201-009 (accessed October 12, 2026).