Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 241 › Conversation 241-004

Sumrell, Sisco & Camp David Operator on Camp David and Presidential materials

Friday, February 2, 1973 · 3:43 PM–8:50 PM ET · Camp David Hard Wire · 18 min

ParticipantsSumrell, Charles C. ("Charlie"); [Unknown person(s)]; Sisco, Frank A.; Camp David Operator; Morlan, Farrell D.; Krell, Ruth L.Conversation241-004 on Tape 241StartFriday, February 2, 1973 at 3:43 PMEndFriday, February 2, 1973 at 8:50 PMRecording deviceCamp David Hard WireSourceNixon Library record for 241-004 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417174803 ↗

AI Summary

Frank A. Sisco, Charles C. Sumrell, and several others at Camp David coordinated the logistical management of recording equipment and cassette tapes for the President's use. The participants identified a quality control issue after discovering that some purportedly blank tapes supplied for the President contained pre-recorded music. They decided to implement a rigorous inspection protocol for all existing tapes and confirmed that the President required specific Sony C-120 (two-hour) tapes moving forward.

Audio

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NARA Description

On February 2, 1973, Charles C. ("Charlie") Sumrell, unknown person(s), Frank A. Sisco, Camp David operator, Farrell D. Morlan, and Ruth L. Krell met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm. The Camp David Hard Wire taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 241-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 241-004

Date: February 2, 1973
Time: Unknown between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm
Location: Camp David Hard Wire

Charles C. Sumrell met with an unknown person.

       Room check
             -Frank A. Sisco
             -Access
             -President’s materials

Sumrell talked with an unknown person.

[Conversation No. 241-004A]

[See Conversation No. 186-006]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Raymond K. Price, Jr. [?]
              -Location
       [Music]

       William Hirsch

       [Pause]

Sisco entered at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.

       Tapes
               -Inspection
               -Content
                      -Music
               -Tape recorder
               -Boxes

       [Music]

       Tapes
               -Inspection
               -Recordings

Sisco talked with the Camp David Operator and Charles A. Grunden.
Show the rest of the log (62 more lines)
[Conversation No. 241-004B]

[See Conversation No. 186-007]

[End telephone conversation]

       [Music]

Sisco talked with the White House Signal Office.

[Conversation No. 241-004C]

[See Conversation No. 186-008]

       Tapes
               -Sgt. Farrell D. Morlan
               -Boxes
               -Inspection
               -Length
               -Number
               -Content
                       -Recording

Sisco talked with Morlan.

Unknown man talked with the Camp David Operator and [first name unknown] Douglas.

[Conversation No. 241-004D]

[See Conversation No. 161-001]

[End telephone conversation]

       President’s preference
              -Morlan
              -Tapes
                      -Sony C-120
                      -Supply
                      -Buzz [last name unknown]
                      -Length
              -Request to telephone Morlan
                      -Location

[Conversation No. 241-004E]

[See Conversation No. 186-009]

[End telephone conversation]

       Tapes
               -Length

Sisco talked with Ruth L. Krell.

[Conversation No. 241-004F]

[See Conversation No. 161-002]

[End telephone conversation]

Sumrell, Sisco and an unknown man left at an unknown time between before 8:50 pm.

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 18% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).

I guess he takes care of that.
Any changes or anything that might be left?
Basically, what we're talking for is maturities.
That's another reason why people never really got to be sensitive here and not take the prisoners like wastebasket or nothing.
That's me.
Important person, I know that.
Yeah, put it somewhere else.
Yeah, got it.
Okay, thank you, thank you much.
Where's the flag?
The flag is right here.
What's that?
I don't know.
Sound like we heard that, I mean...
Thank you.

— 1 min 41 s with no transcribed speech —

Okay.
Hey, he said nobody touched it.
But did you take it?
Well, did you check it?
Yes, sir.
You should have checked.
Who checked it?
Well, it was given to me, and I put it right square in the machine, and Doug handed it to me, and it was checked before that, I'm sure.
What is it?
It's music.
Is it?
I don't know what they've got that for.
I don't know what that's for.
That's cute.
It's that for us.
Just use it.
You don't think they've got something to use tapes to?
Well, I bet the tape should have been checked.
Right?
Because they're out there.
Should I go through every one of them?
Like, come in here?
That's good.
Because they've been open.
Well...
Some of them, I'll tell you, some of them were going fast.
These were coming just like that.
Now, the extension doesn't check for me, but I'm in the way of the extension.
It doesn't have to be.
Besides, somebody's recording it.
I don't know if we're recording it at all.
It must have been recorded on there.
Uh, give me a second, please.
Uh, it's...
Yes.
Okay.
Well, I'll let you know when we come back.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So that's what I mean.
We've got to go through all of them.
Check every one of them.
We've got 90s.
120, 60, 30.
Is that all?
I don't know if all of it is.
I don't have any tape, but it's on like around 50-something tapes.
Different hours.
But if he did go to record something, he would erase it.
He would erase that music.
I know.
That's the way it's going on.
Sir, Gordon?
Say, you know that damn recorder that I just got?
I got a bunch of tapes from it.
The president just left, and I was checking to see if there was anything on the tape.
And this one here's got music on it.
Weren't these supposed to be blank tapes you sent him?
Uh, yesterday.
I just got these Sony C9s.
You know, I put out what I thought was two new tapes for him to use.
Oh, it did?
Huh?
Francisco.
No, well, this is the, uh, I just picked up the two C-90s yesterday down there.
And I come in the jet to have a few glasses, saying, you know, he has about, uh,
No, I didn't see that.
120.
I got 160s.
Well, this here says Scotch ABC 160 in 30 minutes size.
That's what I've got.
Well, I don't know.
No, I didn't have any.
See, I didn't have any reporters until I got this.
Well, he was up there and he left.
He's coming back tomorrow.
And I was just wondering how in the devil I got paid for the music on.
Okay, well, I think...
I said, uh, well, if you're surprised, it's been two, uh, three recordings yesterday.
He called me about it.
Yeah, I got a tape from you yesterday.
I think it's now dominant.
Well, he got, I asked him to get the tapes yesterday.
Well, I've got two down here with me.
And one of them's got music over.
I just put two out for the boss.
We had earlier.
No, sir.
All those.
We only had 30.
That was, you know, give me to go in there.
Well, I don't know.
We picked him up yesterday.
We picked him up yesterday.
You know, the cassette.
Well, what I told them is just get down there and see what they needed.
And they bring back some of all of what the president of the United States.
I haven't saw a message over anything.
But then Garner brought back 20s, 30s, 60s, and 90s music.
Yeah.
Didn't even know I was so good.
I think I reported to Colonel Adams, told him.
C-120s.
Okay.
Okay.
No, that's all right.
Okay.
C-20s, huh?
C-120s.
Well, I'll just pick up some of that.
Okay.
And then all this mess I've got here, I'll send it back to him because I don't want any of this to be recorded on.
Yeah.
It wasn't.
I'll send it to him.
We've got to check every one of them.
Okay.
I'll let you hear him for a test.
I'll call you a little later.
Now I'll get to see the 120s from the starters tomorrow.
Okay.
Thanks a lot, then.
Follow this.
He says, Morgan says there's a message out.
The president don't want nothing but the C-120s.
He says if we don't have enough, go downstairs and pick up the rest of it.
How come it's covered in that same cover?
Well, Doug says he had a checker taken and assumed they were good.
They were brand new tapes.
Okay, so we've got a whole bunch of 30s up there.
Keep them for tests.
Okay, I think, if I'm not mistaken, we've got about...
I'll think about six.
I'll have to check to see how many 120s we've got.
I think I've got a six.
Don't you?
20 minutes is what I think.
20 minutes.
That's what it looks.
C20.
C20.
Well, that's 120 minutes.
Two hours.
C120 is 120.
Is that a 20-minute tape?
20-minute tape.
We don't have any of that on the other page.
Shoot it.
It's a new tape.
C120.
But they're two hours long.
He called for us back yesterday.
Where was that, in the house?
Yeah.
D.C. Board.
That's right.
Make sure that we don't have a proper thing with those thugs back.
Okay, sir.
Okay.
All right.
Second, please.
David, I'd like to speak to Sergeant Moreland, please.
I think he has something to say.
He started home, I appreciate it.
Okay, that's cool.
There you go.
Mr. Moreland, please.
Mr. Moreland, this is Sun Rail TV, Section Camp David.
Yes, did you tell Mr. Sisko C-120s or C-20s?
C-20s.
Right, two hour tapes, correct?
Right, okay.
Well, he told me C20, and I didn't even know of any.
So, uh, it's C120, correct?
Okay, fine.
Okay, thank you much.
Yes, sir.
It's 1-20.
Two hour take.
Two hour take.
Two hour take.
I don't know what kind.
I didn't know what he wanted to say, what he wanted to go back, what?
I don't know.
I never can find out.
He never knows.
Have a good day.

Also recorded on February 2, 1973

  • 186-001 3:43 PM · 42 sec — Camp David operator, William Hirsch, and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-002 3:43 PM · 32 sec — William Hirsch and Charles C. ("Charlie") Sumrell talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-003 3:43 PM · 4 min — Henry A. Kissinger, Camp David operator, Paul ("Stern") Kissinger, and Louis Kissinger talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-004 3:43 PM · 3 min — Henry A. Kissinger, Camp David operator, unknown person(s), and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-005 3:43 PM · 3 min — Henry A. Kissinger, Camp David operator, and Cmdr. Jonathan T. Howe talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-006 3:43 PM · 20 sec — Charles C. ("Charlie") Sumrell and unknown person(s) talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-007 3:43 PM · 33 sec — Frank A. Sisco, Camp David operator, and Charles A. Grunden talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.
  • 186-008 3:43 PM · 6 min — Frank A. Sisco, Camp David operator, unknown person(s), and Farrell D. Morlan talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 3:43 pm and 8:50 pm.

All 33 conversations from February 2, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 241-004, February 2, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417174803). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/241-004 (accessed November 2, 2026).