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Conversation 252-005

TapeTape 252StartWednesday, April 21, 1971 at 2:42 PMEndWednesday, April 21, 1971 at 2:54 PMTape start time00:09:05Tape end time00:14:24ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On April 21, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:42 pm and 2:54 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 252-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 252-5

Date: April 21, 1971
Time: Unknown between 2:42 pm and 2:54 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger

     People’s Republic of China [PRC] ping pong team’s upcoming visit
          -John A. Scali
          -United States Information Agency [USIA]
          -State Department
          -Instructions to Kissinger
          -Scali’s role
          -State Department
          -Kissinger and Scali
          -Culture exchange
          -State Department
          -USIA
                -Frank J. Shakespeare
          -William T. Gossett
                -Marriage to daughter of Chief Justice Charles E. Hughes
          -President’s policies
          -Press
          -State Department
          -Marshall Green
          -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
          -Scali
          -PRC

     United Nations

     Kissinger’s forthcoming meeting with Scali
          -Ping pong team visit
          -State Department
          -President’s instructions to Kissinger
                -Need for subtlety
          -Gossett
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I wonder about the, with regard to the handling of those trains, there's a problem we have here that I don't want.
Is that handled by the USIDA or is it handled by the State?
That's why I'm taking it out, but what I would like to do over here is
We just set it up sort of beyond the scope.
Let's get him in it, get it out of it.
I don't want him to, I want him to get CT and the program and get him in and so forth.
Look over the whole proposition.
And then let's take over because it's a state matter.
We've got a little sense on whether we can blow out there.
You see, that's what I've tried to avoid from them.
Well, I had that line I didn't want to mention to this all.
They're a type of story at this point.
So you've got to have you and Skelly sit down and have a talk.
Three more.
Okay.
But we know it was solely on the quick protocol basis.
They did that for us.
It was for them.
And, uh...
I'm sorry.
I'm not speaking.
I don't see what you want to do.
You see what I mean?
So get it out, get it out.
This is an excellent one for skeleton handling because it involves primarily the exchange business and all that sort of thing.
How do we know, for example, what I meant is, is this normally handled by Shakespeare?
Is that the way it was normally handled?
Or is it handled by Shakespeare?
I don't know what I mean.
He is sort of a liberal type.
Bill Gossett is pretty good with his.
He's married to his granddaughter, the daughter of Charleston.
And he's sort of on the liberal side.
But he is a responsible, decent man.
I think he's fine.
Matter of fact, you are getting down.
What I meant is right.
I don't, I think it's important that we not get an impression where it looks like it's there.
We're not going to hog it on the stage.
We just do it because we want to handle it on the same basis as my dad.
What if they don't do it?
But I think that because we do that, we ought to have somebody with them.
We've really got to have a press man.
We're not going to let the press man handle these people.
If it's somebody else, we can find them and work out the scheme.
And of course, I know that the sailors did do their best, but there was a lot of people in the airport that called us and holding them up.
He must have got that from Martin Green.
I don't know.
But I'm part of the Haldeman, though.
99% of it's being done because they're resentful.
I think it's good that the Haldeman has got a responsibility now.
I'd like to see him as a man in the press.
The other one was, you know, it was a bit, because I happened to go talk to him about it on three occasions.
And he got a record of me around the same time, trying to avoid each other, because he didn't know where the hell it was.
Except this latest one about that, which is not really relevant to what we're talking about.
That's the first time.
They responded with a list of things, and so forth, and so forth.
We're not going to get into the little Mickey Mouse game, because I think we've won on this one.
But the call has agreed to something.
In other words, I had provided the magnum when we were talking about this issue.
We were talking about the U.N. issue, which is another one, which I had deliberately, deliberately delayed, because we might open the hell up in a minute.
Okay, fine.
You'll get a job now, so you'll get to see these methods as well as they do.
And, uh, if y'all would not look here, as you see here, we'll leave you with anything you want to do.
But I'm sure you can get a man and say, now listen, this is how the procedure is.
Um, we don't want to make state methods.
But your point is, it is exactly right.
We don't, the state doesn't handle other visiting applications.
Before we're going here, we've got this company done with great subtlety.
So we've got to get a hold of those people in the right way.
John.
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