Nixon, Kissinger & Bow on Vietnam War and Diplomatic Negotiations

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Finished, all finished?

Yeah, I thought it would be a good thing to make a statement and let them prepare some books for your trip.

Yeah.

I'm trying to facilitate it.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, on that score, let me say that I didn't want to be too, too, uh, you know, a kind of amateur to everybody who's trying to get you some books.

Yeah.

Hello?

Well, Frank, you know, I knew that we had to expect this sometime, but I just wanted to know.

I was so sorry to see your decision, but I respect it and can't tell you how much we appreciated your service to this country and to our party.

Well, that's the main thing.

You'll be here this year.

You'll be here this year, and I hope you will pick a good man to succeed.

Who's the next ranking?

Well, he's a good man.

From Michigan.

Good, good.

And how about in your state, you've got a... House.

Actually, just depend on whatever you buy.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

You've got to pick the winner.

Right.

Well, I learned, I was out of touch on the phone in the Bahamas when I learned it, so I couldn't call you over the weekend, but I just wanted to reach you when I got back today.

Yes, sir.

You are?

Oh, my gosh.

Well, I was, I'm over at Walker's.

I was over at Walker's.

Well, I've been cleaned up.

Well, good.

I hope you're in there.

Yeah.

Okay.

I will.

Oh, absolutely.

Whatever you want.

Okay.

Our old men are resigning.

Cooper.

Not resigning.

Not going to resign.

Right.

Oh.

Oh, oh, oh.

He said resign.

I mean, he's a good man.

Cooper is not very close.

Cooper is a good man.

I thought rather than, I think we ought

He's asked for that, Mr. President.

Fine.

Everything we have in here, I like the game.

Beautiful incident.

First page, I have not any further review.

Second page, I have not any further.

Third page, I, in order for purposes of delivery,

I strike the word, frankly, progress.

And you say progress is just my opinion.

No.

Then I would say, but early in this administration, after 10 months of no progress in the public press, I would say, it's necessary to explore the public position and see where the media and the public are going.

Excuse me.

All right.

On page 4,

I just can't go over this.

There's nobody in the grandstand.

There's no reason to play it.

I didn't like that, Mr. President.

That kind of stuff does not sound like me.

It's great sapphire, but it's not Nixon.

So I just put that period up in the word discussion of the public debate.

The bottom of the paper would say that the debate discussion is free from pressure of the public debate.

But actually, I told him, I told him to go back.

Really, what it does, Mr. President,

Well, because then you're going to get a different thing, and you'll have to get him to work it out.

Now that paragraph, I don't know whether it's better to say, study the nature, the way water is made, or in many cases, to refine it.

I wonder if it would be better to say, I have studied the way that the nature was essentially brought to an end.

I found it.

The wars have been ended through a combination of public and private.

I wonder if that has been stated a little better than you put it in the new study that you've just written, the way it is.

The way it is?

Well, the way I would explain it, put it more personal.

You might ask parties how the public-private deal went.

I have studied the way the major wars of this century brought to an end.

Many cases where a bound force has been entered through a combination of public and private.

Don't you think it's a little better?

Well, I think we need a little more energy.

I understand.

And should we rewrite that right now also?

I wonder why we need it, Mr. President.

You might ask why we need it.

Why don't we just say, I have initiated these private negotiations.

Or, this is the reason I have initiated these private negotiations.

Why give an argument if we go the other side?

Why?

You're kidding.

Why would you?

Why?

No, it's actually not a bad thing.

No, it's actually, there is a good reason why we go that way.

We go to the other side.

I just wonder whether you want to say that you could not let...

I think maybe you could say that.

I'll put it here.

As I have stated on a number of occasions,

I'm paid for five days.

How does that sound to you?

That's good.

I was prepared to move, but I stated no, no.

But as I stated, I'm going to cadence it first.

That's how you're going to cadence it?

Cadence, yeah.

I wasn't going to ask you to do that.

I'm trying.

For any avenue, and I'm going to say public or private, I'm going to speak to the agent until it works.

On the next page, I'm striking out that it's never a slip, never a leap.

I just say that we never leap.

On page six, the sapphire in the suggestion, it didn't sound right to me to say the time has come to speak out.

That sounds sort of crappy.

I prefer to say the time has come to lay the whole secret record on the table.

I don't like that.

Yeah.

Hello.

I just wanted you to know how much Pat and I

I appreciated the taste that you and I understand.

It's really great, and only somebody who knew the house would have thought about this.

Yeah.

But it just fits the tone.

I know nothing about art, but I know things that will do.

of how I, what I care about the most is that you took so much time to do it.

Well, we had a lot of fun.

Okay.

She's in high school.

Well, why don't we say the time is delayed.

Why don't we say the record of our secret negotiation on the table.

Isn't that better than to say the time has come to speak out?

If you like to speak out, I don't like that.

The time has come to lay the record of our secret negotiation.

of our secret negotiation.

On the table.

Rick?

In case you're all right.

On July 12th, I will present another private meeting here.

At another time?

I'm used at each time at another private meeting here.

And on page 9, the word plan has changed the proposal.

I'll give you this text.

The word plan in the second line changed the proposal.

We should strike out at the bottom of the page.

Let me give you a final example of what really is going on.

I see no reason to just skip that paragraph.

I know that we were supposed to be doing this for the police and stuff.

Then just go on.

I decided not to work with you on another event.

Or do you think we need them?

No, I think it's better.

I can say it's better.

Huh?

I don't think it's better than to say it.

Unless you want to say after the those Vietnamese rejected.

Well, but I think that's covered with previous projects.

Read the previous projects.

No, that's fine.

I decided not to go to any of them.

I decided that we should make another attempt to break them.

In fact, it was always President Chu who concurred, pulling in a new plan.

I left that in.

Now, you wanted the words they canceled and knocked out.

That's not true.

It wasn't.

On November 7th, three days later...

They said, you want to strike the captain?

Yeah, because they didn't really care.

But they offered to have a swap with me.

Why is that?

But we had learned in five other single meetings with him that he had no authority.

He had no authority.

But I considered him to be a great man.

I agree.

And they don't want to be in contact with him.

Right.

Bottom of page 13.

And top of page 14.

Do you think we have to go into quite that much detail?

I was wondering if this didn't get a little too damp.

We can make up the last sentence on top of, we can make up the sentence that begins with, because our thoughts have disagreed.

Yeah.

Can we do that?

Yeah.

I don't think we should.

That's all right.

Because you see, we say the same thing on the other end.

Were you ready to go?

She didn't find out, I don't know.

or military for this night.

Oh, well, it'll be proposed, but only last May.

Yeah.

We will answer to only the military that actually flows under this approach.

You can take out under this approach.

Oh, you can't under this approach.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, let's leave it down here.

Mm-hmm.

When we come to the part here, I see that you want to soften down on prep, if you're ready.

Now, looking at page 15.

It's all right if it's on page 16.

Do you want to strike out the order?

Yeah, I will.

All right.

If the enemy's answer to our peace offer is to step up to them, I shall fully meet my responsibilities and act to you.

I'm going to protect our people.

How does that feel to you?

Now, if you don't want the next paragraph, the last paragraph on there, you're out.

I think you've said it.

You're not prepared.

Well, you can say, but let's definitely, no misunderstanding on one point.

We want it settled.

We would not agree to a settlement.

It's something that we're proposing is a settlement, not a settlement.

That would solve it.

Well, I don't think you said that earlier.

I'm, I'm content with it as it is, but it's not going to get better.

You've got your thread in there, you've got your thread in there.

Yeah, you can cover that in here.

In other words, you said you did not prefer to want to have the woman on when the man was gone.

And we should say this is the plan I have proposed tonight to accomplish that goal.

But you need a little bit of trep.

The trep is in there.

The trep is in there, clearly.

They'll ask you, and we'll say it in court.

You, uh, I like this over the president.

He always acts for the president.

He always tries to act for the president.

I hope the justice will take it out and know something about citizens.

I don't know what it adds to the stage.

Well, it's a clever one.

Yeah, but you will not do it.

That's why you put it in.

I don't like it.

You have a mark, I presume.

It's like your mark.

It's about, it just, it just sort of grates me a little.

It grates, and secondly, it's again apologetic.

Well, then, do we want the next person?

Yes, that we want.

I don't think we need to apologize.

I think the rest of it is good.

I think the ending of it is a little better.

There's a micrograph that's connected to the road.

That's what I'd like to do.

We've got to run this draft now by rocket speed.

Once more, I think.

Well, they're not going to change them.

I mean, I thought the father had almost advised him.

Every one of his assistants will stay.

Yeah.

Why don't we say it?

Why don't we just say that we have no...

I don't think he needs to say that we've made no fundamental changes.

No changes.

Everyone's suggesting it.

I do think it would be useful if Sapphire...

I'd draw any fucking comment on the phone.

I'd like to keep them on the board as much as possible.

We'd walk over it.

But it won't stay on the board.

It's just...

I've got my draft, and it's been cleared by you.

All right.

After we've gotten rid of that sandwich, we'd like to just run through and see.

Oh yeah, we'd like to read it while he's there and come back to it.

And if he had something and we didn't know about it, if he was wrong, I would have to read it.

And it creates something, but I don't think he'll...

always sort of fit with what you've discussed in the final draft.

We're going to shoot.

And we can't make any fundamental changes.

But we just like you to tell us.

We just like you to present what you've decided.

We want to see it more.

You know, God doesn't send a Catholic Johnson over to find a Spielberg that they want to consult with.

He can show them a copy.

Actually, Henry, in my view, it's a pretty damn good speech.

It's a damn good speech, Mr. Bennett.

And Raj has, after all, he made amazingly huge changes, and we've taken them all.

We've added a few nitpicks to it that you wanted, which he wouldn't even recognize.

They're fine, fine, but, uh, you're wrong.

But there's no major change in this.

And, uh,

You can tell us that, Barney.

We... Why don't you just, uh... Because he's waiting, of course.

We're here to tell him.

I'm just going on with the subject.

I'm pretty much wrong.

I think you...

I want to argue with him.

He won't argue with me.

Like, we act for others.

It's a nice way to get a grandstand right now.

You see, that's too tricky.

Too clever, this guy.

Or do you agree with me?

I completely agree.

It just created me, but on the other hand, I'm willing to say that it's a goddamn deal.

Most people, first of all, if that bond is public, both of them make the point that they're implying that there was something wrong with the secret negotiations that we had to apologize for.

That's exactly it.

They are such a clever play on words that they just aren't in a way of doing things.

Of course.

Do you mind if I tell Bill to go there?

All right, all right.

You just say it.

And also, I'll tell him all of this has to be translated into foreign language.

Yeah.

Rose, I want a break here.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Well, I didn't read that.

No, I'm a devil.

This is the reason I initiated these writing negotiations with you.

I have studied the way of war.

I do wars.

Rather, why this century?

It's the way nature's waters have been brought to an end.

It isn't just this century, how all nature's waters have been brought to an end.

There are several cases, and a number of cases, and a number of cases that have not.

The waters have been brought to an end.

It's a private discussion.

It's never been brought to an end.

The waters have been brought to an end.

.

I don't know.

That's it.

I don't think you've got to work it out.

It's all about confidence.

But I think we're through.

Well, you know, you can keep fiddling.

And, uh, but it doesn't do any good, you know what I mean?

I may send a copy of this to, uh, Satya, and she gets a few just to go with the ticket.

Do you run a copy?

We'll run a big copy, and I'm out of your company.

Yeah.

And, uh, give me, uh,

You need one to build to it?

Yeah, you better make, you better run, run about three times, because he needs one, and this person can take over the time.

He wants to build, keep, do that one.

What Bill said, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And you can tell all of us, I don't know, one of you will, I'm told now, a couple of people,

This is Mr. Kistrick.

Can you get me Bill 10-5, please?

You're absolutely right about that.

Because the moment you start running by, it gives guys second thoughts.

But he wouldn't be the guy if I had both matches to play.

Yeah.

He doesn't remember that.

He would have been basically the same guy.

for the whole box, Mr. Sanger.

But it's more than that.

It's nine cents.

Oh, I was going to tell you on China, I now need to get you a recommendation as to what I should read.

Now, I haven't read a damn thing yet.

Now, I, of course... Bill, I've been talking to the president, to Rose, and you'll see a few changes that were made in your text.

uh, one or two sentences that read very cleverly in English were taken out, uh, because of the problem of the writing because it ran in the same place.

And, uh, but otherwise it's the same.

Also, and,

And also, we don't really think it needs to be run by until rather than yet, because it incorporates about 90% of the strain.

Just what you do would be at more potential.

Hello?

We're getting a clean copy of that done now.

And Rose is going to get it to you.

And, uh, uh, we'd better be considerate about that.

You have a major point you want to make.

Yes.

Okay.

I'll call you later.

Good.

Yeah, on China, I'll get you some.

Well, in other words, like I said, it's a book that's worth reading.

I'll read it.

I need to know, of course, I've got your papers, your conversations, both of which I'll have to read, and testers of which I'll have to read, as I get closer to the day.

That's what I'd love to visit.

But maybe if there's some background material you think I should know, I don't know.

I will get together with you.

I don't want to.

I don't.

Remember the huge book that you picked?

No.

That book.

No, because that book, Mr. Besson, just deals with the issues, and I can package those issues for you in a better way, because I can tell you what they're going to say.

But I should read, do you not agree, the record of your conversation?

We'll see.

All right.

That I will do.

If I may recommend the order.

I have a book which has my background memorandum, which is a good way to get into it.

Plus some CIA reports about the personalities.

Secondly, you might want to look at a few chapters of two or three books which I could get together with you.

Then I have a book prepared for you of

Uh, incidentally speaking, say, health should be probably on, you know, on the briefing.

You should pass it on to them.

Thank you.

Okay.

I would have, uh, incidentally, that, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

Well, Mr. President, I remember we sat in the room there.

The conceivable debt of the government shifts the facts to the White House.

Well, didn't we understand, don't you, that at the time it would be done, say, and I wouldn't know anything about it?

And I couldn't give approval.

Well, in fact, we told the king you couldn't give approval, but we do our best to protect him.

And we didn't do it in writing.

But that's now the record is 3,000.

Then I have, then I'm going to have,

My subject, Vietnam, what is he going to say?

What do we recommend he would say?

And only then would I recommend that you read the good data, because then you have a great word.

Now, I have the good data.

I'll tell you what I will do.

But I can give you the good data any time you want.

Oh, Vanilla.

Yes, sir?

Could you bring first a cup of coffee?

Yes, sir.

And then would you call over there and have to bring my two briefcases?

Yes, sir.

And I'm going to pull out of the briefcase two red folders on trying to get back to you.

And I want you to prepare for me.

You know what I mean?

You may just assume that I've read nothing.

And then you can just give me here is the material on the information brief on trying to get back to you.

And of course, your conversations are much more than you said, and the issues.

But what I will do in the book that I've prepared for you, that I will prepare for you on the issues, is I list on each issue the topics, the commitments we've made, or what I've promised.

Now, which is better for you to handle, to have the actual record of my conversations,

I don't think that I have.

If I read the whole record, the conversation is going to be long.

Thank you.

I think the way that you always prepare, you just lay it out, this issue, this issue, and you say, Dr. K said this, and Dr. Levin said that issue.

You should read how it was told.

I'll make a number of suggestions as we get closer, for example.

Sometime during your visit, he's going to make a very tough call.

He's always done it with me.

That's when you must get back very quickly.

And then he'll back off.

If you wish to go off, he'll follow you.

And he puts new examples where I did it.

On my first visit, he gave a very tough call.

He said, well, I don't really know what it is.

I just like to expect him to come.

It was a privilege that you had to choose, and you received your response.

I don't want to get in a little bit of trouble with the subject, I consider it not to be a good one.

It was really there way back.

And when he said that, I said, now that we have to be 454, and then I said 451, 452, and he asked 452, he said, and I said, now let's do it 453.

He said, oh, 453 is probably worse than 452.

Let's go and have dinner.

And after that,

He said, he said, what shall we do now about the president?

The second time, he also made a very tough call.

He would be saying he was pulling through the time.

And again, in fact, you'll see the delay.

Every time I've been back, he's withdrawn.

He's been pulling through the time.

The women of the U.S. side are beautifully prepared.

You are very subtle, he's very subtle.

He's very elusive.

Me?

Yes, he is very.

One thing I wanted to ask you, he will have at least two people there that he knows.

I wondered whether we shouldn't have Winston Lewis, who was in on all my conversations.

that he, that he couldn't be there to take notes.

I would prefer that somebody else take the notes and keep your mind free.

You know, I already know so much.

He was, you know, all the others.

And he can give me a note if there's something at all.

Are we taking the time to...

It's up to us, Mr. President.

Should we?

Well, I suppose if we can't do it in Turkey, we probably haven't got anybody good enough.

We'll have someone good enough, but he'll be a State Department translator.

I just don't know what he'll do.

Tell us something.

Well, let's take one and let's use him as a counterpart.

Right.

And it would be interesting to let Joe and I just say we're aligned.

and he'll give him a video in English.

He has two .

I personally don't like to do the two kinds of .

I prefer not to, and I couldn't agree more.

You have the State Department Translator.

You'd be expected to have that conversation with the State Department.

Or is it an impossible position if he says he can't tell if they'll say come on, please?

We've got to keep it along as we go.

Yeah, wait a minute.

I guess we can.

Maybe we can get a translator from West Mid-State for us.

I don't know.

That'd be great, so...

I think it's best just to say, let's think.

I mean, is it going to cause an issue that people say we went there and let them have it?

I don't know.

Well, we don't have to fight it right away.

You're right.

There's no way we can do that.

There's no way we can not have him.

In the meetings, right?

There's no way.

I don't have anything else on China.

In my file, I sent it all back.

This is what you want to read.

All right.

I'll put them all in the book.

You put it all, all in the book, see, so that I will know.

I'll read it.

Don't worry.

I'll read the whole thing and give it my hand and immerse myself in it.

It was done this weekend.

Yeah, I have to.

I'll start this weekend, Friday.

I'd like to start actually Friday night.

Are you going to do this kind of thing?

No, we can't do that.

We don't have a... We don't have a... Well, I...

I did a little bit awkward.

I don't know.

They were very small, very small.

And then you can say the only problem there is that you insisted on the language being that way.

How about that?

That serves that purpose.

But I think it's better, yeah.

Let him know that it's pretty far down, too.

Oh, yeah.

But calmly, I would... No, no, no, I know.

No, he doesn't.

Okay.

I have a group to get to respond to April so that we can get them aboard if you want to give additional consultations.

Oh, on the restaurants?

Yeah.

I mean, just so that people have heard...

Oh, they're going to recommend some additional documents.

But I won't.

He has.

The paper is there.

And there's a lot of people who have seen it.

I'm just looking to protect you from the fact that you do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, you tell them I'm looking.

Look at it.

But not this week.

Abramson knows we're not going to get this week.

All right, fine.

Thank you.

Nixon, Kissinger & Bow on Vietnam War and Diplomatic Negotiations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 24, 1972

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