Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 441 › Conversation 441-013
Nixon & Colson on Watergate and John Dean
Tuesday, June 5, 1973 · 1:22 PM–1:36 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 17 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss strategies to discredit former White House counsel John Dean amidst the Watergate investigations. The conversation focuses on portraying Dean as an unreliable witness who is seeking immunity to conceal his own involvement and further a political agenda against the President. Nixon emphasizes the importance of framing these attacks on the administration as harmful to the country and highlights the necessity of maintaining a unified front among White House staff.
Audio
NARA Description
On June 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:22 pm to 1:36 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 441-013 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 441-13
Date: June 5, 1973
Time: 1:22 pm - 1:36 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
[See Conversation No. 39-91]
-12-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUMTranscript (AI-generated)
This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 3 minutes of this recording (about 19% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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So, I just wondered how you were doing on your Smith thing.
I don't know, but the international reaction is pretty much that way, you know.
I don't mind that there's something wrong here.
at least they've got to pass the language but that's that can only be cured so you know like why did they cause part of the problem
They are out to get the president.
totally innocent, and they know it.
They all know it, and yet they're out to get it.
Here, again, also, we can point out what president in history would have taken two men that he knows are not guilty of all the murder of a man.
Let him resign.
In other words, that the president is doing everything that he can to cooperate with these people.
If he asks you about political papers, you fuzz that up, and you can't do anything.
I'm not telling you until this year.
Not one word.
After all, I would have a lean literature.
In terms of not building it up.
Or what did you have to find?
Not at all.
I haven't seen Dean, but twice.
That's right.
Until, until you left, when you saw me, that was our first time.
And after that, obviously, here's the point.
We had, we had the problem with the executive director.
We had the problem with the grader.
All the leasing was required, and that's what all these meetings were about, John.
And the air raid,
What time of day?
What are we talking about?
Well, that's when you go.
You just address it as special counsel.
Right.
On the other hand, be sure it should ring like you do, because I don't want you to .
And I did say, I've got to get to the bottom of it.
Get in the O.D.
with me.
Oh, yeah.
Why did I call you?
Not because of that beautiful.
Anybody ever ask a student a question regarding his local knowledge?
I mean, what?
Michael, he felt it.
You know, he was the counselor.
He was in constant touch with you.
He saw it on the duty and on the duty.
I had total confidence in it.
You know, I didn't dream to repeat such stuff.
And then, do you mind playing?
As I became aware, I moved exponentially.
I really did.
In art, even though it was very difficult, personally.
I'm April.
But I called you in the middle section and asked you if you were a recommendation for the time.
I was part of it.
Well, there's plenty of hurt if you mention that.
But by the way, what did I call you in the middle section?
I just called to see how it's going to be on Congress or something like that.
Well, I didn't call him, but I took care of it.
And Ryan told me.
I was trying to get him to write a report.
It's totally, totally, totally what I was talking about.
Which I didn't know a thing about.
What would you say he asked you about Jesus and so forth?
I think for you or John or Bob to crack a beat, it's hard to say, John, it's very important not to do that for reasons of the kind that hit him as a kid.
Oh, I would say that.
I think you can very well say that.
Well, obviously, he's discrediting the true ground of council.
That was totally his intention to launch.
Second, he's seeking immunity, and that's what's ending the lie.
All right, good.
He's totally discredited because he had all the sense that I had and so forth.
Why didn't you settle earlier?
And second, why does he seek immunity?
Well, one other thing, why, this is often raised, why do we, why did Goldstein, not Goldstein, but all of the others, you know, who resigned voluntarily, we requested the reason that he sought immunity.
You see, you're kind of, that person who sits in there, he's pretty jumbled.
Told everybody.
Told us in March that there was no virus in the education until March 1st.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
Well, you've got to get on.
Well,
Oh, I wish you well.
Yeah, but the point is, I hit hard at trying to get the president.
Yeah.
And hurting the country.
Third, it's uncruely.
Second, it's unfair.
And third, it's hurting the country.
We've just got to stop these people from trying to get the president.
Stately, that it's totally wrong.
The president is a, a gross suspicion on us.
Good.
Good luck to you.
You will, I know.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I would say that.
I think he can very well say that in a lot of these treaties.
He's just better than the truth of it.
I mean, look, he's a large executive, but he's counting it.
As you know, he's seeking immunity, and that's an incentive for life.
All right.
All right.
I didn't dream you would teach us stuff from then.
Why didn't you tell us earlier?
Second, why did you take immunity?
Do you know what I'm saying?
One other thing.
Why did we
I don't know.
You know what I mean?
You've gotta get on it.
Good.
Well, I wish you well.
All right.
Yeah.
I'll find it.
I've hit hard.
I'm trying to get the present.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm hurting.
I've got a bird.
I'm true.
I'm second.
The funny part is you mentioned that, but by the way, what did I call you?
And then I was like, I can just call you and see how it's done.
They're a very deteriorating country.
And this study will not stop us from trying to get the president.
It's totally wrong.
The president is trying to get the president.
So I can call him, but I don't have a suspicion.
Good.
Good luck to you.
I'm totally correct.
I'm totally...
I'm totally without knowledge of this.
Which I didn't know the whole thing about.
When you say yes, you arrive at the reason and so forth.
I think for you, or John, or Bob, to crack a beat, it's hard to say, John, it's very important not to do that, for reasons of the timing that hit him, as it hit me.
Oh, I would say that.
I think you can very well say that, but obviously he's discrediting the true ground of council, and that was totally to large.
Second, he's seeking immunity, and that's an incentive to lie.
All right, good.
I think that they, and I think I'm being considerate, he's totally discredited because he had all the sense that I had and so forth.
Why didn't you say that earlier?
And second, why does he see community?
One other thing, why, and this is often raised, why do we, quite a ghostly, not ghostly, but all of a sudden, you know, we were dying voluntarily, and we requested the reason that he saw community.
You see, you, you kind of, that person who sits in there, these three gentlemen, told everybody, told us in March that there was no virus in the education, until March 2013, that there was a great application.
You know what I mean?
That, that's his problem.
That's right.
Well, you've got to get on it.
Do a question and do it.
Right.
Oh, I wish you well.
Yeah.
But the point is, I get hard at trying to get the president.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm hurting the country.
Third, it's been untrue.
Second, it's unfair.
And third, it's hurting the country.
We've just got to stop those people from trying to get the president.
Stakely, they're totally wrong.
The president is a, a very suspicious person.
They say that we're being graceful and slowly asking about the power of the earth.
That's very funny.
Especially in the United States.
That's right.
Because, let me agree.
Good.
Good luck to you.
You will, I know.
Also recorded on June 5, 1973
- 039-089 1:12 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 1:12 pm to 1:16 pm.
- 441-011 1:12 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:12 pm to 1:16 pm.
- 039-090 1:16 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:16 pm and 1:22 pm.
- 441-012 1:16 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:16 pm and 1:22 pm.
- 039-091 1:22 PM · 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 1:22 pm to 1:36 pm.
- 441-014 1:36 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:36 pm and 2:00 pm.
- 441-015 1:36 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:36 pm and 2:40 pm.
- 441-016 1:36 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:36 pm and 2:40 pm.
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Cite this conversation
Conversation 441-013, June 5, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/441-013 (accessed November 15, 2026).