Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 457 › Conversation 457-004

Nixon, Haldeman & Hardin on Henry Kissinger and William P. Rogers

Wednesday, February 24, 1971 · 11:55 AM–12:19 PM ET · Oval Office · 22 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Hardin, Clifford M.; Bull, Stephen B.Conversation457-004 on Tape 457 (tape position 01:32:53–01:55:42)StartWednesday, February 24, 1971 at 11:55 AMEndWednesday, February 24, 1971 at 12:19 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 457-004 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417175981 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman met to coordinate the President's upcoming schedule, focusing on agriculture-related appearances and the management of high-level meetings with business and community leaders. The President expressed frustration with White House staffing processes, specifically regarding the frequency of his meetings with advocacy groups and his desire to delegate these engagements to senior staff members like George Shultz or George Romney. Additionally, the conversation included a candid assessment of Henry Kissinger’s personality, his ongoing conflicts with Secretary of State William Rogers, and the need for a more disciplined administration strategy when dealing with political opponents and the press.

Audio

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NARA Description

On February 24, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Clifford M. Hardin, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:55 am and 12:19 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 457-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 457-4

Date: February 24, 1971
Time: 11:55 am - unknown before 12:19 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman

     Meeting with black leaders

[The President talked with Clifford M. Hardin between 11:55 am and 12:01 pm]

[Conversation No. 457-4A]

     Report to the President
         -John B. Williams
         -Hardin’s press conference

     Mississippi
          -Farmers
          -Hardin’s visit
          -Integration of schools
                -Compared to northern schools

     The President’s schedule
          -Foreign policy
          -Forthcoming trip to Des Moines, Iowa
          -”Salute to Agriculture” dinner
          -Farm editors
                -Publicity

[End of telephone conversation]

     Public relations
          -President’s remarks
                 -Agriculture

     The President’s schedule

     -Businessmen’s visit
     -Morehouse College in Atlanta
          -Peter M. Flanigan
          -Pros and cons
     -White House staff
          -President’s participation in meetings
Show the rest of the log (107 more lines)
                -Donald H. Rumsfeld
                -John N. Mitchell
                -”Drop by”
                -Black leaders’ meeting
                      -Advance scheduling
     -Accessibility of the President
     -Black leaders’ meeting
          -George P. Shultz
          -George W. Romney
          -John D. Ehrlichman
          -Rumsfeld
          -Finch
          -Planning

Camp David
    -Invitations
          -White House staff
          -Finch
          -Rumsfeld
          -Elliot L. Richardson
          -William P. Rogers
          -Melvin R. Laird
          -Mitchell
          -Romney
          -John A. Volpe
    -Rogers
    -Problems

Black leaders’ meeting
     -Richard Hatcher

Governors’ dinner
    -Impression
    -Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope
          -Visit to White House
                -Delores (Reade) Hope

          -Arthur G. (“Art”) Linkletter
               -John Wayne
                     -”True Grit”

     Vietnam War
          -Civilian versus military control
                -Henry A. Kissinger’s role
                -President’s position
                -General John W. Vogt, Jr.
                -General Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
          -William L. Safire
                -Forthcoming meeting with the President
                -Speech draft
                -Rogers/Kissinger relations
                -Middle East
                      -Rogers
                -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
                      -Gerard C. Smith
                -Kissinger’s meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                -Summit meetings

     Kissinger

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Privacy (D) reviewed under deed of gift 11/21/2017. Segment cleared for
release.]
[Privacy]
[457-004-w001]
[Duration: 38s]

     Kissinger
     -Purpose of tantrums
                -Get his way
                -Gain attention
          -Childhood
          -Relationships

******************************************************************************

     Vietnam War
          -Edmund S. Muskie

     Briefings by Administration spokesmen
           -Democrats
                -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                -President’s position
                -Rogers
                      -Muskie
                           -Haldeman’s forthcoming conversation
                -President’s position
                      -Senators
                           -George S. McGovern
                           -Eugene J. McCarthy
                -Vietnam peace plan

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:01 pm

     The President’s schedule
          -Federal Executive Board

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:19 pm

                -Revenue sharing
                -Meeting with the President
                     -Pros and cons
                     -Meeting with the Vice President
          -Safire

The President and Haldeman left at an unknown time before 12:19 pm

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 5 minutes of this recording (about 21% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

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Yeah, I got your report when you guys got back, but it was correct for you to have gotten out of the condo later.
It was that night before you went down.
It was a good job.
I appreciate it, Mike.
You are a three-person office, I understand.
Well, that's good.
I mean, you know, we're not going to change what we're going to do, but it's the main concern for those people, the fact that we care about them, and this is something we really appreciate.
How did they get up to the reception, I'm afraid, folks?
On coming in?
Yes, yes.
Dave Williams was talking about it last night.
Good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good,
They are the bombings, sir.
That's a real good answer for somebody.
He's like that.
I know, I know, I know.
That's the way I felt when I stopped there at the airport.
They were such good people and they were so poor and so proud.
They've got it.
Good, good, good, good, good.
But the Mississippi group, you know, they've always sort of felt that their activities are the jackass state of the country.
They're proud.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But you know the big thing, that school thing has been handled brilliantly.
You know, there's more integration to Southwood.
Actually, 33% of all, 38% of all black children in Southwood, the majority of white schools, and only 28% of black children in Northwood are majority white schools.
Oh, I know, I know.
But instead, we'll see you this morning, don't we?
Yeah, I guess so.
I'm doing my work now today.
I'll see you tomorrow at 7 o'clock.
So I think it's a good idea to go through mine.
And then, of course, we have the saluted dinner tonight.
That's the big thing on that.
And I thought we'd want to make that a real big event.
There'll be a lot of theater people.
Well, I think we followed up on the second, too.
Don't think about it.
I was just talking to Ray at Iowa last night.
He said don't visit the farms.
It's a horrible time of year, so I guess we shouldn't do that.
But we'll find ways to talk with the farm editors.
Put that on.
All color free, okay.
That's been approved already.
I just looked at my chart here.
That's one of the things I got on.
Yes, it's all done.
No, then you can include all the things you recommended.
You just have to have the time.
It's a question of time.
But you have to carry the labor report back.
Oh, yeah.
Well, good.
I'll do it.
I'll do it.
Good.
Don't worry, I'll work it out in my head.
Okay, let's get some rest.
I was wondering if we ever did get out from that place though, what I said there.
He said, he said, he said, it was that following up, yep, especially the park publications, which is where you get some out of the hood.
But it's, you know, they don't, he doesn't remember.
You know, it's a real problem, isn't it, that we keep, if you just hit this thing.
Well, the partners, you know, you have them every week.
You keep setting up every morning.
You set up the partners and ask what you set up.
This is all right, too.
I guess what I'm concerned about is this.
Oh, shit, I...
I just wonder, I just wonder, maybe the thing goes, I can see more reason for doing it than some others, but I just wonder if those business guys on Atlantic, that is what I have more doubts about.
Because I've seen those guys so recently, you've seen them, I think it was wrong.
And now, I don't know.
They're running guys, and I can just, and I felt like a goddamn fool.
And what did he, did you talk to Pete about it?
What did he say?
What was his reason for my statements?
Actually, he wasn't pushing it.
He was merely playing the pawns.
They were here, and they're beating each other, and they're here beating one another.
Okay, I'll have to say it over.
I think we should say no on that.
We ought to be able to do something.
Somebody, maybe those guys won't come.
Maybe we've gotten to the point that they've got so used to seeing me that they expect me to be one of them.
That's our fault.
It's more important than it is in there.
And it's a mistake they make.
Like when you have Brumstow and Finch over there, you know, talking about using the damn dirt beams and this thing over here and all this.
It's a damn good idea, but if it degenerates into a thing, I'm wondering if any of us on the staff has somebody in the White House that the president's got to see, and then what the hell is he using?
I mean, the president put them all in your drink, and the president came by and gave them to you.
Yeah.
Like Brumstow has this ingrational class in the drink and wants you to drop by that.
Well...
I think we've just got to be aware of it, and what it fits, you know, do you feel like
Why do that or something else?
Well, there's times when it's worth doing some of that to a benefit's wrong to fall into what we are an integral part of what we have to do all of them just because they're here.
Blacks, I think we're probably right though that they should have been brought in here without it being planned ahead of time that you would drop off so that we knew this time we would have to set up one.
Well, that's all of us need.
That's the best way.
I should've sit in there and sit with them.
Now here they're goddamn pitching.
I'm not gonna do that.
Not at all.
Irving's in there.
There are.
He's a top man.
I chose to be in it while you were out.
Oh, and Romney's there.
Romney and I got laid in on the walk.
Rumsdell was there.
Pitch is in there earlier on education.
So they're, they're getting that from Romney.
I just set an hour for one hour, and it's over.
I'll say fine, gentlemen.
An hour is just like one hour.
And I've done the document by Congress.
So I'll just schedule it.
I'll have it drawn as a manifesto or something.
Pretend it.
Fine.
That's their procedure.
It's like that old black country and a couple years ago.
Manifesto.
Okay, read it to me.
Stand forward.
I think there is some problem with anybody else, but a lot of rockers, Laird, Mitchell, Romney, Colby, or of course, unless you're going out and you want to fight the rockers, did you have a group of them?
Did you have a group of them?
One of those guys is the mayor of the area.
If they can get a black mirror cranked into here.
Sure, I don't care.
I've been harassed quite a bit by children.
They're just not going to let us.
Well, the guy they make it is, is, uh, is, uh, Hillary Clinton.
Hillary Clinton.
Well, last night the governor said, I think, we, we,
and doing the social thing like that was, how the hell did he do what he done?
They are for that kind of affair.
They can sit and gaggle around with each other.
And why is all of them nice?
Well, the music was good, the strings are good, and so forth.
They're always good.
And they go in there, and that program is good.
And they have those thoughts.
Oh, you know, we've heard a lot of those things.
A lot of those people have heard it.
That's right.
And they all like it.
It's kosher.
And it's nice to know that a lot of people just send a message like that.
Dolores was up there writing letters to all her grandchildren at my house station.
She sent letters to each man and child.
I was a little hard on my father's curse to read, but they stayed out a little on Thursday.
When he told me, when you start with the hopes and dreams, I had to.
I mean, everybody stayed.
Everybody stayed.
I wouldn't have tried any of this today.
He was only there a different time frame.
But if anybody stays in the White House, you do have the problem.
People like that.
So, but it was nice to have them stay.
Jack Bottle had stories to tell about that from now on.
He said, you're right that you quit.
You know, he...
That's all
Especially stars, they just can't, that's their whole life.
They can't, the whole, well, not the whole, the limp letter has enough of it.
I hope that's a call, a call, on the half of good callers.
Keep your business, my letter's a business letter, but limp letter's interested in business, and he's interested in his job.
He's heading back to the business center.
You don't think it is?
I don't think it can be.
It has to be.
It has to be done.
I'm going to get a vote over it.
I understand.
and rid him of all he wants about military history.
Everybody's a military historian.
Civilians have always tried to run for it, and most of them are worth a damn.
Uh, it seems to have, you know, since civilians put anything in with the American military, you can see something from here that they don't.
But let me, let me realize I have experienced some weaknesses.
He is not a good, big-legged, tech visionary.
He is too emotional.
He's too, he gets too involved in one of the big, this road and that road and the other.
He doesn't see, he really doesn't see the big picture sometimes.
Don't you agree?
Sometimes, yeah.
He's worth sitting in, but he cannot make a decision.
Basically, Henry is to be an advisor.
But I would have to go down and look at it some more myself.
Maybe also, I don't know.
Maybe in the book, when they ask him the questions.
Maybe those book questions.
I guess I'm just, this is what I'll say now.
I'm not telling Henry.
You had mentioned the sapphire he wanted to see in his home.
I don't want to see it.
He's already there.
He's ready.
He was, you know, on standby to see it.
Well, he's got a draft.
You know, that was a good point on our relationship.
To be perfectly frank with you, I was amazed that Henry raised that.
Using sapphire was a way to keep Henry
Henry said, out of the meat grinder, if Henry goes in and says to the partners, here it is, clear the thing, you're going to have a confrontation.
But Sapphire, with his clever style play, go ahead and say the President would buy this, and he takes it to Henry, does that, and then brings me the copy.
But Henry, he's got this, he's got an obsession, I'll tell you.
He doesn't like, he's, he's despicable, I can tell you.
He's got a vote of three.
Henry does not talk to himself.
He has to be considerate.
That is his problem.
He's got to express himself.
He's like the actors.
He's got to express himself.
And that is where I think we have a real problem, that he's having to either control that, or we're going to have a hell of a week, or we're going to have to toss him.
Because it's basically a case of, well, he made you write it up, and he's being motivated to a great extent by the wrong reason, which is...
his passion for doing it, doing it, and not letting Rogers get the credit for it.
Same is true for Saul, for that matter.
Saul Payne's habit should be absolutely right, because Smith is an untrustworthy son of a bitch.
So there, we wouldn't think about him doing it.
But in every area, there is this, this, and a lot, and we're secretly meeting with every interest.
He's doing as much as he knows to kick Rogers.
That's just wrong.
You can't do that.
I'm going to have to take him out.
It's over soon.
As soon as we get past this, some people, and by God, it's going to be there where we can see it.
But he can't.
And he can't.
I think what he does, I think I remember.
Of course, he loved to do it.
Loved to do it.
Not because it hurt us, but because he likes to be in the second down.
So he had a very interesting dog, Kennedy.
You've got to remember this is cold steel now.
What we've got there are enemies, and you treat it that way.
Treat it as if it's cold as ice.
But if you and us talk to Ryder, Ryder's a little salty musky brother.
He was a very musky musky.
He was in law school.
He was only two years old.
He didn't go to Duke at that time.
And Ryder says he's not a nice guy.
He's not very smart.
And so forth.
And Ryder's a little ten.
He started wanting to go to Duke.
He's a tough guy, that foolish politician.
Rogers, this is God.
Remember that we don't give him anything.
I was not being treated like any other senator.
Shit, what?
How does a man, does a man act like this?
He's a candidate for president immediately.
He gets special treatment.
That's my point.
The answer is hell no.
When he becomes a candidate, when he becomes a nominee, yes.
So he said, if you're going to see me, how the hell are you not going to see me at all?
And he'll go, well, McCarthy's talking about going back to Poiseuille.
Yeah, which is just fine.
They don't really have anything to say to them.
Excuse me, you know, these guys, they are not poor.
We can't ask them to support us.
Sure.
Are we okay with that?
Can you text those?
Sure.
They're part of the system.
They're the high part.
Now, part of this is not something I can't do.
I saw them before when they were here in the cabin.
This is an expanded group.
I do not believe, I do not believe the president.
to be just a final operation to do.
But we should not use the president with this kind of a gale of people that are paid people, God damn it.
They're paid people, and they're not.
And they ought to keep up and do the job.
I shouldn't have to go to talk to them.
I really don't have to.
They're paid.
I think they're the top level of them out there.
If you guys are running a regional office, you're going to have to count them first.
But one representation of that will go to Scott and the states.
Just tell Scott and the states that they're actually going to be on board.
I see.
That's exactly right.
I want to talk to my father.
I want to talk to my father.
All right.
Good.
We'll do.

Also recorded on February 24, 1971

  • 457-001 10:19 AM · 1 hr 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, Ronald L. Ziegler, Virginia H. Knauer, Lewis A. Engman, Elizabeth Hanford, White House photographer, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:19 am to 11:35 am.
  • 457-002 11:35 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:35 am and 11:38 am.
  • 457-003 11:35 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:35 am and 11:38 am.
  • 457-007 12:01 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:01 pm and 12:19 pm.
  • 457-008 12:19 PM · 1 min — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:19 pm and 12:35 pm.
  • 457-005 12:34 PM · 43 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:34 pm to 1:24 pm.
  • 457-009 12:35 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:35 pm and 12:43 pm.
  • 457-006 1:24 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:24 pm to 1:25 pm.

Cite this conversation

Conversation 457-004, February 24, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417175981). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/457-004 (accessed November 2, 2026).