Nixon, Rogers & Kissinger on U.S.-USSR relations and U.S.-China relations

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So I agreed to it.

See, did you remember, he called, Frieden called him when we were in San Clemente and said that he had some message from Bresna.

And whether the, with regard to whether the Chinese thing, man, any...

that the possibility of a meeting was out.

We said, no, provided it came later.

And when he caught up, he just didn't make it very explicit.

He just said, that in principle means there's no meeting possible with us.

I said, no, just as long as it's after the Chinese one.

And then he takes a turn.

This is very good.

And he's, what he did, one thing I did decide, well, Bill and both of you should know, and he said, I don't want it.

You know, it's funny they gave you those little pieces of paper like that.

Just kind of with a lot of paint on it.

What he said with Bill, what he'd like to do, and I was talking to Bill about what he said last time, I said, well, now, I said, this is going to leak, it's going to get out, and so forth.

And I said, I'm going to tell Rogers and Kessinger, and that's all.

That's what she said.

I made an announcement soon.

So he said, how about next week?

I said, fine.

Next week?

Yeah.

Well, the week of the, I don't mean next Monday, but the following week, the 12th of the month.

What is the date?

Well, it's actually 10 days.

I mean, two weeks from now.

But he said the 12th was the date.

So we've got something we want to keep to ourselves all the way now, if we can.

And he wants to go forward with it.

To bring it to Carson House.

He said he'd call you, so we must go.

But I don't know whether we're going to know about this when he calls you.

After all this stuff we went through

two or three times last year.

No one can decide without them.

They did with us long.

God damn it.

Embarrassed us.

And I was one of them.

I just spoke to him.

I told him, I said, never, unless it's after the Chinese.

The thing we want to handle, the way we want to handle this, though, is the devil.

And incidentally, the whole thing was 12 noon again.

He said, you like the, he said, Nate, because I, I said, when you, when you, he said 12 noon on the,

He'll be back by that time.

I think that's why he took him.

But he's willing.

He wants to go on the 12th.

But it'll be just the same as the May 20th thing.

You see, they got that drill all set for there.

But the main thing was that he said, I just think you don't know, Mr. Gray.

He started off with this.

He said, I know him very well.

He's a very strong man.

He says, he's not a new man.

And then he described all of his background, every position he'd come.

He's a very strong man.

He's a very direct man.

And before I left, he had a very long talk with me.

And he wants me to convey this to you in private.

He said, Mr. President, he says that his greatest goal, his greatest goal is to try to have a meeting with the president

to be able to say that we are friends after the meeting.

Or if not that, that we have .

He said that .

that he saw him, as a matter of fact, between the king of Afghanistan and the, who was on their estate visit, and I guess, I don't know, whoever it was, and then Romingo saw the man between, but he said, Brezhnev, and he drove into the car in the second meeting, and Brezhnev contacted the subject and said that he just conveyed to the president

his personal view that he thought that Soviet-American relations now, it was vital that we have at the highest level some understanding.

That's why they raised all these subjects.

Now, there isn't any question of why.

Oh, sure.

It's just that they remember us.

They've been doing that for a long time.

I think it's John.

And another thing, Bill, that I sensed in this, very interesting, because of the Mideast worries and all.

I'm sure they're worried about the Mideast.

I just go, well, I still think, essentially, I have to be able to talk about it.

Well, the very issue is the citizens, you know, wait and see.

But to him, he brought, remember that, the Mideast thing, the way he was going from that thing,

but the, I'm just showing you, but it does show you what a hell of a time we're gonna have when we do finally meet them.

They always start with an impossible position, Mike.

It's like, well, all you have to do is to be a great, and we'll totally withdraw.

Well, I'm not.

They know that it's not gonna happen.

Well, Bill had to talk to me just now.

I told him basically, I said, Judge, that's an answer.

Look how you talk about it.

It won't work.

Well, the plan is sometimes, they won't make it.

They won't make it.

You've got to take a little heart from him.

They know damn well I never saw that in the country program.

Well, it's great that you couldn't have made the full plan.

I would have looked at it more, I would have looked at it a little bit more.

But the thing is, I don't know why he went to such great lengths, you know, in giving the invitation.

And he goes to a great length to say how much Brezhnev... Well, actually, I read the Brezhnev letter, too, apparently.

I closed it.

You know, all these things, you know, they've all been...

But he says Brezhnev personally feels that it's essential that the United States, the United... As he was at the Soviet Union, he said, here, we should be friends.

He said, you know, the first ten minutes of the prepared statement,

about, you referred to what you said a year ago, about the importance of our relationship, and he said that if we feel the same way, the two countries that really count, the United States and the Soviet Union, everything else, we have to be careful what we say to the outside world.

We understand.

We all have to get along.

But he said in the final analysis, this is all the consequences.

All our leaders know that.

He said it's a fact.

That's why we're so pleased about what's happened in the last year.

That's why we want things to improve.

Now, some of it, of course, may be just comments, but there's others.

But, yes, we were walking over, and I did do, I said, now, I appreciate your understanding statement about capitalism.

He burped up.

And I said, I just want you to know, I said, that we of course are going to pursue those talks, but we are not trying to pressure you.

I said, neither side.

And he says, no pressure.

And I said, no, I said, neither you can pressure us nor we can pressure you.

That's where he was looking.

And I think if you follow that kind of thing,

It's not for the purpose of inviting them.

It's just simply we're looking to our interest committee and the parties.

Because if you think of this, the important thing we have to bear in mind here is that we've got to get the China data now.

back into February.

February we can.

February is an important one.

Bill wants to talk to you tomorrow about that.

That's right.

Because I know you can cut it in behind.

But that date should be moved to about February.

So as soon as there's, well, I think about that we can get it in February.

Because we've proposed two dates to them.

February.

Good.

Nixon, Rogers & Kissinger on U.S.-USSR relations and U.S.-China relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

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Also recorded on September 29, 1971

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Nixon, Rogers & Kissinger on U.S.-USSR relations and U.S.-China relations

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on September 29, 1971

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