Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on Fishing Rights and Speechwriting Strategy

36:14First, I didn't want to say it was here, but I lean to the younger man.
36:27Is that all right with you?
36:29You've seen them both, and I don't want to get into trying to see these men, because then you get personally involved.
36:38But is the younger man all right?
36:41Good.
36:41All right.
36:42Yeah.
36:44Yep.
36:44Well, anyway, it's contrary to my, my, my name, so I'm approving it.
36:50I don't think you should know, and I'm not saying the word.
36:52I'm just, I just initial it, and I send it over, and that's the way it'll be.
36:58And let me say, I think I'll just wait a day so I can talk about it.
37:03The other thing is, be sure, John, on those next guys, let's come up with, I like this idea of the young bucks, don't you?
37:10The point is they can go on for three or four years and then we'll move to something else.
37:14But when I say young, 50 or under, huh?
37:17Because they need to do this.
37:21You know, I put it to Arthur and I said, look Arthur, you can mold this young man.
37:28And he will, he can.
37:32I got their message on that.
37:36You know, this is so goddamn ridiculous, because... John, I'm a Californian, and as Chris probably told you, what the hell in the House and the Senate, the law, I, of course, as a Californian, and walk a little billable as a senator, heck, we led the fight for the three-month title, I'd say.
37:59Now, this is the same issue again.
38:00I can't...
38:05I can't understand why they, this is a suit brought by the U.S. government.
38:11What could be done with such a suit?
38:18Yeah.
38:18Yeah, yeah.
38:19Yeah, yeah, well, let me, it's probably in a department, let me tell you what I'll do.
38:23I think it's probably in one of those civil, civil suits.
38:27It is not.
38:29Yeah, some jackass over there probably wanted a pair.
38:33Yeah.
38:44Okay.
38:45The suit has been filed against the state of Texas on title.
38:49I didn't bother you.
38:49I told you about it.
38:51I missed talking to you.
38:52Stop.
38:52Now, God damn it.
38:53It's the same lawyer.
38:54It's the same lawyer that's on this campaign.
39:04First, you both were here when we had the documents.
39:07I went through it all as a congressman, as a senator, as a vice president.
39:12I was on the three-mile limit.
39:13You know what I mean?
39:14I mean, I was for our covenants or whatever the hell it was on the three-mile limit, but you don't tell me why you don't mark that.
39:21The main point was that...
39:24I fought and died for that damn thing.
39:27I stated it when I was in Texas as a candidate in 60.
39:29I didn't think I had to restate it in 68.
39:32Now, this same little son of a bitch, probably some Jew, in the Department of Justice,
39:39is handling this suit that handled the one on Thailand ten or fifteen years ago.
39:45Now, I want the suit quashed, or any way you've got to do it, I want some action taken, because it's against my convictions.
39:55Now, Dan, this is not a criminal suit, this is a civil suit, and that's a question for people, the reason people know.
40:01Why, is this something that you think, Whittaker knows something about it?
40:07It's in his area, but I doubt that he knows anything about it.
40:09These kind of things have a life of their own.
40:11I don't want you to get into it, Dan.
40:13Well, I'll get it done, and we'll get it turned off.
40:17I totally disagree with this.
40:19I don't care whether the environmentalists are up in arms about it.
40:26I am not going to let the federal government screw up the state's fishing rights.
40:31And they know what my views are.
40:35And again, this is one of those things that sort of stuck between the cracks.
40:40I'm sure it is.
40:41Some little guy just moved ahead.
40:43I don't know.
40:43But nobody knows what happened.
40:44You didn't know?
40:45No, sir.
40:48Well, I don't know.
40:49I doubt that John knew about it.
40:51It isn't the kind of thing that we find out about until too late, ordinarily.
40:55I know.
40:57I was going to tell you that I...
41:00I can see that I think that our strategy of having you do the breathing at these times is exactly right.
41:06You did it extremely well.
41:07You had to do it in a hurry because it's not any much longer than you should.
41:17But the point was that you went directly to the point.
41:22You were trying to make a sale.
41:25Amazing.
41:27Let me explain the difference.
41:29I thought I told Bob, and maybe I didn't, but Henry was to handle his this morning.
41:40Henry took about 30 minutes on his statement, and so he had a big map up there, and he talked about I-Corps, and II-Corps, and III-Corps, IV-Corps, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
41:57But in terms of just getting up and making the hard, hidden statements that these guys want to remember,
42:04I just want to be sure that I understand Henry.
42:10I know he's superb.
42:11He works his butt off.
42:13He works on the ladies and so forth.
42:14I think maybe the problem is that he doesn't do it as well when I'm there.
42:18I think maybe that's the problem.
42:20You see, you've got to make a sale.
42:23I finally had to come on stronger than hell.
42:25And in order to get across to these professionals, they've got to go out there with a feeling of confidence.
42:31But the point that I make is that's the problem with our general braziers.
42:35If Richardson had been brazing on bussing, he'd have gone into all that stuff that Dominick was racing.
42:42If Schultz had been brazing on the meat battle of things or bussing, they'd have spent too much time on the last one that you made, which is perfectly balanced.
42:52Food prices are a very small part of the budget and so forth, but which is totally unsaleable for the housewife.
42:57She didn't like that.
42:58She said, God, now they're too high.
43:00But nevertheless, it's a good point for people to have in the back of their mind that you're speaking to a farm owner.
43:03It's not worth it to him to speak to the other owner.
43:06The same, and also, what you said on drugs.
43:10God, I've heard your briefings on drugs time and time again.
43:14And they just bore me to death, because they go on and on and on, you know, what we're doing here, what we're doing here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here,
43:39When you see my question, you can tell the kind of questions the leaders ask.
43:43Of course, the leaders tend to get into, well, very technical things.
43:48Each is a special, best way.
43:50Pot has got something for us, and Dominic has got something for us.
43:54But what do you want to leave with the leaders?
43:56These are simple-minded men.
43:58They really are.
43:59And it isn't their fault.
44:02Presently, the burdens of a congressman and senator for entertainment, attending meetings, and all the rest are so great,
44:08that there's hardly anybody who thinks.
44:11There's hardly anybody that sits down and figures anything out who becomes an expert.
44:15And he's got us little shitasses that work for him out there who give him the papers.
44:20I don't know about you, but didn't you feel that, I don't want Henry to feel it, he went and did all right, and he came on fine at the end.
44:31But the point was, if I had told him 15 minutes,
44:35He might have made it.
44:37I think that's it.
44:39Didn't that match up?
44:40Lee, you did?
44:41Well, I was disciplined.
44:42I'm having to boil things down to five minutes on a subject.
44:47Really.
44:47John had his papers ready to hand out.
44:52So did Henry.
44:53He did not.
44:53But he had them ready.
44:55Colson and Haig worked all night last night getting them done.
44:57So what happened?
44:58I don't know.
44:59He wouldn't hand them out?
45:00He didn't find that out.
45:00The paper that day was done.
45:02I was going to send them out later.
45:05But anyway, I heard about them things.
45:07And I didn't get it in the first draft.
45:15But you're a pretty good judge of this leader punch.
45:20And I guess this is going to apply to the Democrats when they're around this afternoon.
45:26Henry, who is our big gun in the domestic field, is far more effective than I.
45:33Basically, in a crunch like this, he's more effective than Rogers, because Rogers would protest too much that we're negotiating.
45:44He's more effective than Laird, because Laird is not believed by anybody.
45:48People believe Henry.
45:50The thing that I thought, that I think that we made a mistake on, and where I think John Yoo and Henry have gotten to sit down,
45:58whoever, before these, before he ever does a briefing, he'd say, now Henry, go in and make a sale.
46:05I can imagine, I can see now what Henry's briefings, I'm sure, to the press.
46:11Did he do this way with the staff?
46:13Did they have a map and all that sort of thing?
46:14There's nothing.
46:16No.
46:17He didn't have any maps in there at all yesterday.
46:19He said he'd keep his pitch and hit them hard on the... Yeah, and on the point of not talking about the...
46:27Damaging the Generation of East and all that crap.
46:29We had that simple argument.
46:32We got the whole argument here today.
46:34He did it at the set.
46:36He was, what, about ten minutes?
46:37He is awfully good.
46:39And it was all, what's your judgment, John?
46:42Anyway, I think it may have worked all right.
46:46Because it's just as well that these guys hear a little from me, which I deliberately let Henry go on first.
46:54I think actually the way it turned out was good because it was very heavy on the war and they soaked up a lot of stuff that they probably never heard before and they got a flavor of your determination in the thing and they're able now to go out and say the president's strong on this.
47:12He sees this as a highly important point that he's not going to stop.
47:19You're strong.
47:20We're not predicting any results.
47:22You ought to be strong.
47:24You ought to urge strong action.
47:26But we'll add that you've got a good case.
47:29You see, like, for example, this decision negotiated by Henry Carver, Henry Carver, Warren Trump, he said, look, fellas,
47:36You saw what we said on January 25th.
47:39You know what the critics were saying.
47:40I can assure you that since January 25th, we have a record just as good.
47:44Don't be afraid.
47:45That's what they need to hear.
47:47Just like that, in one minute.
47:49Don't you agree?
47:50I think it's good for us to have to compress things.
47:56All of us.
47:57This is what I prepared for Henry on the war day.
48:03I said, Henry, just say that and give that out to these people.
48:11You see the point?
48:11Yep.
48:12Why we're there, what we're doing, so forth.
48:16All right.
48:18I think you hit it.
48:20These guys are simple.
48:22And we tend
48:46to consider them very sophisticated, very knowledgeable, very, yeah.
48:51I'm not sure that Henry before the Depression
48:58Well, you assume that the press guy knows a lot about what's going on, but it's very spotty.
49:19Some of them know a lot about one thing.
49:22Did you get my memorandum that I sent you?
49:29Which one?
49:30Is that the one?
49:30The speechwriter.
49:31Well, it's the speechwriters will never take it.
49:38They won't take this.
49:48The speeches I make are, to the great credit of the speechwriting team, generally highly literate, highly responsible, and almost invariably dull.
49:56Now that's true.
49:57This means that though they may for the moment get a reasonably good audience reaction by trying to put some ad lib in which will make them go over and deliver it, they seldom leave anything memorable in the minds of the vast majority of our listeners which they can take away with them.
50:11This brings me back to my harping on the need for illustration, anecdote, and colorful words which would inevitably be remembered.
50:18I'm not talking about engines.
50:19I have four of them.
50:20It's the clever tricks which are fine for, I call these sapphires, which are fine for governors, mayors, senators, but not up to President Sanders.
50:27What I am referring to is a greater use of illustration, parallel, striking, colorful language which will grab attention and keep it.
50:35I realize all illustrations and analogies have great dangers because any clever critic, and almost everybody in the press, of course, is an antagonistic critic to our efforts, will point out why the illustration doesn't fit.
50:47On the other hand, this means that we at least get the attention of the critic, and through what the critic writes or says, perhaps the attention of the listener and those who read about the speech, the fact that he does criticize the illustration.
50:59This is brought to me when I was scanning the biography of Jenny last night and read of the fascinating relationship between Winston Churchill, when he was very young, 21 to 6, and the great American, Herbert Cochran.
51:11Incidentally, getting back, Cochran, Churchill says, was his model as a speaker and also gave him great guidance in his early years in speech writing.
51:23Of course, I don't mean to suggest that I should write or someone like Churchill.
51:26He's one of those rare birds where God broke the mold when he died.
51:29On the other hand, we can at least learn from him.
51:33And if it would be too arrogant to do so from him, at least we ought to be able to learn from Bert Cochran, who, despite his many gifts, never went with the top of the greasy bowl in the United States.
51:42Page 7, the second volume of the chapter, Churchill makes a very interesting observation about Cochran's speech writing about him.
51:49I've said this to Christ a hundred times.
51:52I would commend the first paragraph, the top page section, to all of our speech writers to read as a good way to find a means to put more light, meaning, and above all, more memorable phrases in the speeches that we write.
52:03After finding out the necessity for reading very broadly from the section, and then getting down to the writing, he says, Cochran told Churchill, try to simplify the most abstruse questions with familiar, easily understandable illustrations.
52:20That was the secret of Churchill's better speeches, the secret of most of the better speeches made by the better speakers of the English and American Christian.
52:28It is, and I know that it is, spatially taught in our modern institutions of higher ed, because it will be criticized, it's overblown, it's simplistic, etc.
52:36But the difficulty of so-called modern American Christian institutions is that they fail to realize that the main point to get across in speech is not substance, but to make it somewhat memorable and, if possible, somewhat exciting.
52:49Anyone can take enormously potent substance and make a successful speech.
52:54The November 3rd speech, the so-called checkers, the announcement of the trip to China, such great events that the substance itself became marital.
53:02And how it was sent may have helped a bit, but really didn't matter all that much.
53:05On the other hand, we don't have any broadcasters left like that.
53:09What we have to take is a minimum of substance and get a maximum mileage of it.
53:14The only way we can do this is to improve the quality of her speech writing, and the best way to improve the quality is to follow Cochran's advice to Churchill.
53:23More easily understandable, familiar illustrations, and whenever possible, a colorful phrase or two that will stick in the minds of the hearer.
53:33All of you know, most probably don't, Churchill did not invent the phrase Iron Curtain, which is 25-54 in the World War I standard.
53:41which he used to pull in the circuit.
53:43But the words had an enormous bang to the substance, less like Churchill learned from Cochran, without, of course, Cochran's time.
53:51No doubt he had gotten the attention to it.
53:54But what I'm getting at is this.
53:57Canadian Parliament speech, the speech I made up there, the people in there.
54:03I mean, a couple of quotes, yeah, they might have found one that's pretty good.
54:07And that's mine, that's for their credit.
54:11But the difficulty is that the speechwriters come up with something that will get A, from a professor, and C, from an audience.
54:23God damn it, because the secret of audience reaction is illustration.
54:28It's persons.
54:30For example, I mean, let me give you another example of this.
54:38It'll be helpful to you in your own work.
54:56Do you please bring me that copy of the Canadian speech?
55:01Bring me the last available copy of it.
55:03Draft 5 or 6 or whatever you have.
55:07Wherever it is.
55:08I sent it back early this morning.
55:11She was the only one here at 8 o'clock.
55:15She typed it off and sent it after I worked on it last night.
55:19You don't have a copy of the page before you send it to Henry, and he's working on it now.
55:23Ask the little girl out here.
55:25Ask her where the hell it is.
55:27See if she's got a copy of it.
55:29What I'm getting at, John, is this.
55:31The secret of effective communication is really what you leave.
55:38It's like the creature.
55:39It's the politician.
55:41And it's also the great teacher.
55:43When you leave, is there anything you take away
55:48That's why all preachers use stories, because most people take away a story.
55:52That's why now and then, an outlandish phrase, some phrase, an illustration, an analogy.
55:59You see my point?
56:00Yes, sir.
56:01And that is where we are pissed for.
56:04We've just got to realize that we are pissed for.
56:07You've read this draft that comes in to me.
56:09It's beautiful.
56:10I mean, they try.
56:11I mean, they try.
56:12I mean, I say some of it is they've got illustrations and the rest of it they don't.
56:17They never think in terms of it as a speech record.
56:19They think in terms of it as records.
56:21And, uh, what Flashlight, for example, I was going to use, and I didn't, that's why I didn't use it, but to show you how you miss it, you have to miss it, a way to tell a story.
56:37I had just suggested that even, I said, why don't you try using the conclusion of the Ingalls speech, my reference to
56:45how Pitt's famous speech, which has been rated as one of the best short speeches in English, and she was praised as the savior of Europe, and he arose and answered in these words, I give you many thanks for the honor you have paid me.
57:03but Europe will not be saved by any man.
57:07England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, I trust, save Europe by her example."
57:13And he said, well.
57:16I said, now that is an arm's span.
57:18All right.
57:20The way I used the dildo while I was in Transylvania was that I concluded with that.
57:25And I said, and so let us, the English-speaking people,
57:30save ourselves by our exertions, and perhaps by our example, save peace and freedom in the world.
57:36And I use it in other connotations too.
57:39This is the way it came back.
57:41He went through Price and eighteen others that we have over there.
57:43He said, I would like to close my speech with the same quotation that I used when I spoke at the Guildhall in 1958.
57:57I referred then to the fact that William Pitt had made a very all-encompassing response to this man.
58:06And killed him.
58:07Next, come on.
58:09Don't forget it.
58:11The way you do it, you pause at the end, you finish your speech, and then you'll say, 180 days, 180 years ago,
58:22In one of the most dramatic moments in the history of the English-speaking peoples, a great English Prime Minister made a speech that is as great as one of the top ones in British office.
58:34He was praised, the savior of Europe, after no since magnificent victory in Dubai.
58:40He arose.
58:40He responded in these words.
58:42Listen to me.
58:46That's speaking.
58:48Are you listening?
58:50Christ doesn't understand this.
58:51How many goddamn times have I told him this?
58:53You see my point?
58:54Now that's clear to me.
58:56I'm going to give you another example of how he delivered his speech to me, of how not to say something, but what I'm getting at is, go back, pick up Jenny.
59:11Read the references of Burckhardt's relationship with Churchill, and you will see what the two talk about.
59:19Burckhardt, great Irish orator.
59:23But the point is, he knew illustration.
59:26But isn't that the point?
59:27He was an orator.
59:30My problem with speechwriters always is that they never make speeches.
59:34That's exactly the point.
59:36And they don't know how to make it fit.
59:37So they don't write speeches, they write, that's just what you said.
59:40They write essays.
59:42Essays.
59:42Essays, yeah.
59:44But it seems to me that...
59:47But you see, if I could say one thing, you know, as an example, like, for example, I use an iron curtain.
59:55As I think, for example, of drugs, I try to think of something, so you say, total war,
1:00:01or you use a term, you've got to think of colorful terms that fit, not stuff like, like in South Park, Elizabeth Hitchcock was the one that, yeah, that was the joke thing then.
1:00:15Well, I said a war on three fronts.
1:00:19There are all kinds of those things around.
1:00:24But you've got to use it in that, and then you've got to say, like a, well,
1:00:31Would you like a grain of oak to be handed to me, please?
1:00:42Is this the last one?
1:00:45I need the one before this.
1:00:47Bring me the sixth draft also.
1:01:03You can tell me what the error was.
1:01:07Oh, I think this is a good example of what I mean.
1:01:14And I'll show you again.
1:01:16I'm worried.
1:01:19Did you type this?
1:01:22The Canadian draft.
1:01:27Well, I need the sixth draft, which I've marked up.
1:01:36Would you please go in and tell Mr. Butterfield what I want is the sixth draft of my notes on it.
1:01:47The sixth draft of my notes on it, please.
1:01:49All right.
1:01:52Now let me get it in there.
1:01:53I'm sorry about that.
1:02:00I won't give a damn about this speech, this is what I'm going to do, show you the little challenge.
1:02:07I'll see if I can do it on my own.
1:02:15All right, listen to this.
1:02:22Canada is the largest...
1:02:26Our economies have become highly independent.
1:02:31But the fact of our mutual independence and our mutual desire for independence are not inconsistent traits.
1:02:37I am confident that we can find a pattern of economic interaction which is beneficial to both our countries and which respects Canada's right to charge its own economic corpse.
1:02:50I'm sure you can sense
1:02:53that there's potentially a hell of a good cheer line in there, but they've lost it.
1:02:58And they've lost it by using the words, I am confident that we can find a value in economic interactions with national other actors who respects Canada's right to charge its own economic cards.
1:03:07The only way to get a cheer line is to state something.
1:03:11So I would say it in the back.
1:03:18Canada is the largest trade left.
1:03:22The fact of our mutual under-dependence and our mutual desire for independence are not necessarily consistent traits.
1:03:30No self-respecting nation can or should accept the proposition that it should always be economically dependent upon another nation.
1:03:37Let us recognize once and for all that the only basis for a sound and healthy relationship between our two proud peoples is to find
1:03:51is to find a pattern of economic interaction which is beneficial to both countries and which respects Canada's right to charge its own economic course.
1:03:59Now there's a cheer line.
1:04:01But it's so easy.
1:04:03You see my point there?
1:04:05It doesn't say anymore.
1:04:06It doesn't say one goddamn thing more.
1:04:09But it says it as a speaker now.
1:04:10But you say, I have confidence in this and that and the other thing.
1:04:13It's just like you're reading it in the literary review.
1:04:19And it's a discouraging damn thing.
1:04:21I understand.
1:04:22I don't know.
1:04:23I think there's no better way, except that it's very rare.
1:04:26Speech writing is hard for anybody.
1:04:28It's very hard for me when I've got a hell of a lot of other things to think about, you know, about decisions here and there and the other.
1:04:34But by God, I'll do it.
1:04:36But it does seem to me that with 30 people on the speech staff, or maybe five, whatever it is, goddammit, some of them ought to pay attention.
1:04:46Why can't we get more examples, Don?
1:04:47What does that man preach?
1:04:48He's got a priest over there.
1:04:50Oh, he doesn't send anything over.
1:04:52Where are the examples?
1:04:55Do you tell them to get examples?
1:04:56Oh, over and over and over.
1:04:57You do, too.
1:05:10And here's another one.
1:05:11But this very sense of promise in our dealing with our adversaries is a tenement for us.
1:05:16This very sense of promise in our dealing with our adversaries must make all the more important our advances with our friends.
1:05:25Very nice.
1:05:28Very nice.
1:05:28Rewind.
1:05:30But as we seek better relations with our adversaries, it becomes all the more important to strengthen the alliances with our friends.
1:05:39We must never forget that the strength and unity of the West has been an indispensable element in helping to bring about the new era of negotiation and peace.
1:05:49It's simple, isn't it?
1:05:51Well, it's more than simple.
1:05:52That term, phrase...
1:05:54is is memorable as you as you just read in the west no no i'm not a good speaker i i could be if i had time if i had that time i could be because i that's my job but it takes me a hell of a long time it takes me a week to write a paragraph god damn it there ought to be somebody we've been here all this time and where the hell is the person
1:06:19A ray can't do it.
1:06:20Are you sure?
1:06:21Because if he doesn't recognize the weakness in this, how the hell can he do it?
1:06:25I think that's, what do you think, that's a part of our problem, is the whole...
1:06:35He had exactly the same problem as he had.
1:06:39He was a writer and an absolutely marvelous man.
1:06:42And I said to him, you know another thing I want to say?
1:06:45In terms of the quality of the written word, this administration has probably been the best in this century.
1:06:51In terms of memorable spoken word, unless the event was great, we've been lousy.
1:06:59That's all.
1:07:00Would you agree or not?
1:07:01Yeah, I'd like to see us try it with somebody who's good speakers.
1:07:04We've been trying that.
1:07:06That's what the priesthood is supposed to do.
1:07:07Is he pretty good?
1:07:08Well, he was a candidate for the Senate.
1:07:10Oh, hell, that's...
1:07:12So he's a speaker by trade and was supposed to be a good speaker.
1:07:17Let me go over a couple of things, John.
1:07:20First, what about Pop's Proposition?
1:07:23It makes some sense.
1:07:26It'll raise... Well, we may well.
1:07:35And what this does is raise us from no chance to about four chances in ten getting something in the Congress.
1:07:42Right now there's no chance.
1:07:45It's not even a march, right?
1:07:48You do not get killed.
1:07:50That's right.
1:07:50Well, don't you agree, or do you agree, that the last time I made a police comment, I said, look, we know what these Americans did with the press.
1:07:57Please, will you all say that all the Democrats are stalling, destroying around.
1:08:03They are for busing, and we're against busing.
1:08:05See, that's what you've got to get.
1:08:07That's the issue.
1:08:08And that's the thing I think we have to keep silent.
1:08:11Our guys here, they were really trying to do something.
1:08:17A pop's pressing very hard on this.
1:08:22I didn't plan to think that.
1:08:24I was telling him, go ahead and try it.
1:08:25He's not going to get any place with it.
1:08:45I'm going to send you down a very provocative memo that Ed Harper's done on busing.
1:08:51Well, he's a sort of a maverick sort of fellow.
1:08:56He thinks that busing may turn out to be a liability in the long haul, even though on the polls he runs very strong now.
1:09:02And I'd like to have you read it just for what it's worth.
1:09:06So we change our position?
1:09:07No, no.
1:09:09I wrote him a memo and I said... Well, that's the case.
1:09:11There's nothing we're going to do about it.
1:09:13I don't need to read it.
1:09:15Well, I'm not suggesting to you that we change at all.
1:09:18It introduces some thinking that I think it's important for us to at least entertain.
1:09:24I wrote to him and I said, Humphrey flip-flops, and that may be characteristic of Humphrey, or there may be more to this than meets the eye.
1:09:32Why did Humphrey make the statement that he did, and why did he move the other way?
1:09:37And that led to this.
1:09:39And he gives Humphrey maybe more credit than he's entitled to.
1:09:43So he thinks that Humphrey's right to come out and bust it.
1:09:45He thinks Humphrey may be politically very shrewd in what he did, not just because... Why don't you tell me what the argument is in that speech?
1:09:54Well, all right, let me study it and then I'll tell you.
1:09:59Don't let me paraphrase it now.
1:10:01I'm not ready to do that, but very simply, the argument that he makes is that busing is not a voting issue.
1:10:15It is not the kind of issue that will motivate people to vote for a candidate or against a candidate.
1:10:21That it's a surface issue.
1:10:24And that we have to be awfully cautious that we don't put too many chips on it for that reason.
1:10:30Because it is also the kind of issue that alienates people.
1:10:33It certainly does.
1:10:35I would say that we would have to go back and check what has happened to Griffin.
1:10:40Griffin's been saved, but he's not.
1:10:44Well, he'll argue that we don't know whether Griffin was saved or not.
1:10:49people who are concerned about blessing, blessing is more of a meditation than anything else to other people.
1:10:56He's absolutely right.
1:11:01Well, I don't buy his thesis.
1:11:02Well, I think, I really think that you've done the right thing thus far.
1:11:25And I don't mean, I don't, no, wait, don't put too much weight on this.
1:11:30I don't mean by mentioning this to you that I'm sold by any means.
1:11:37I'm not.
1:11:38The way you wrapped up this meeting is exactly right, that you've got them in the opposition in an intolerable position right now.
1:11:46They've got an impossible choice.
1:11:48And I think we ought to drive that for every bit of advantage there is in it.
1:11:53because whether that makes votes or not is really not as important as whether it tears up their peep-hatch.
1:11:59Well, that's the point.
1:12:00They're going to have a hell of a fight about that in their platform.
1:12:03Oh, Lord, are they ever.
1:12:06Let me come to the other things.
1:12:07I've got several items.
1:12:15What is the situation on...
1:12:24I talked to Connolly about the tax return that he said he worked on.
1:12:38I talked to him also about the age, who was the head of our damn drug program, Armstrong or what's his name?
1:12:46The drug program?
1:12:47Ambrose.
1:12:48Ambrose, yeah.
1:12:49He started the company, the original, he even did an amateur job, a totally amateur job, this was in 2000.
1:12:56I said, I'm going to be asking for it.
1:12:58He said, we've got five of them.
1:13:01We're going to ask for three of them all.
1:13:03I told Conley, I said, God damn it.
1:13:04Here's one place.
1:13:06Go for $2,000.
1:13:06Well, he carried one stuff, for example.
1:13:09I said, is that all we can go for, $2,000?
1:13:11I think we should go for $2,000.
1:13:12I should have mentioned this.
1:13:12Just tell Schultz it hasn't.
1:13:14I mean, he and Conley.
1:13:15But he said, where you can do something that is highly visible and highly effective, do it.
1:13:20If, for example, you can hire 1,500 bar agents, and he says he can train them in two months,
1:13:251,500 more.
1:13:25I don't think he's an empire owner.
1:13:27I don't think he is.
1:13:30But if you can hire 1,500 more customs agents to do what these little customs agents are doing, going through that miserable thing, searching ships and searching cars and searching planes.
1:13:40And so they pick up one suitcase with $5 million retail of heroin.
1:13:45John, it's worthwhile.
1:13:46I stopped talking right after you did.
1:13:49And we're on this.
1:13:51You should understand, don't let it spend your life planning.
1:13:55Now the other thing on IRS, I told him about the withholding thing.
1:14:06I said, John, why don't you send 10,000 IRS agents out to offices
1:14:19and set them up, even set them into big plants and send them there for the specific purpose of helping people make their farms up and put it out if you're doing
1:14:31so that individuals could come in.
1:14:33I said, the average guy can't afford the tax collection and the taxes on IRS.
1:14:39Who and I have our returns made by somebody else?
1:14:42We've got to do something about it.
1:14:44He said, well, of course, we've cut back.
1:14:46We've cut IRS applications back and all that.
1:14:49And I said, I understand that.
1:14:51But I'm talking about a one-shot deal, like a census.
1:14:54There's an easier way.
1:14:56Huh?
1:14:56There's an easier way.
1:14:58What's the easier way to get the money?
1:15:02Put a simple form in everybody's paycheck that says simply sign your name at the bottom and that will result in one more withholding.
1:15:08His idea is better.
1:15:10And this is the thing Connolly and I talked about yesterday afternoon.
1:15:13Supposing right about the first of September everybody got a blue check from the government.
1:15:17Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:15:21You see my point?
1:15:24It's a time ascending ritual.
1:15:28Can you give them a refund?
1:15:29Oh, yeah.
1:15:29Give them the money.
1:15:35It's a nice dream come true.
1:15:36Why not?
1:15:37Because the other one can stop the withholding now.
1:15:40So they get the money.
1:15:41Well, Bob, there's several things we can do.
1:15:44We can mail, you know, this form.
1:15:47And we can do that at a modest cost.
1:15:51Right.
1:15:51You can do it every day.
1:15:52We can...
1:15:58withholding for two weeks.
1:15:59Simply not withholding from people's checks for two weeks.
1:16:03All people.
1:16:04Is everybody being over with them?
1:16:05Everybody.
1:16:06Unless they filled out a new W-4.
1:16:10And... Well, but you see, the problem with that is you don't get any credit for it.
1:16:16The check is coming from you.
1:16:19And there's a slip in there that says, I've been distressed to discover that the statute that the Congress passed resulted in overwithholding.
1:16:27and so we're going to anticipate that problem by sending you this nice check now keep track of the amount that we're sending you because you got to put that down in your income tax form well who's who is following up connolly is following it and he's got a three-step deal and we're following up yeah but that's what he's busy and everything but the over i mentioned joining
1:16:52well he got hit twice in 20 minutes then because i hit him on it also and uh uh he's we'll keep following him on this i think the mailer should go as a matter of course just all armor uh no he's not enough for christ's sakes there's one of the intellectuals
1:17:15You know, there's another thing.
1:17:18Somebody looked me up and said, I used a damn good line for them.
1:17:20I said, now, John said 80% of the people of this country are against busing.
1:17:25I said, that's true.
1:17:2680% of the people of this country, and we haven't got our message across.
1:17:30I said, 80% of the people of this country are against busing.
1:17:33And 80% of the press of this country are for busing, except for their own children.
1:17:40That's the way they did it.
1:17:41Bust them right in the ass.
1:17:42Then it's the Congress.
1:17:44Then it's the Congress.
1:17:46Yeah.
1:17:48All the Democratic candidates support busing except for their own children.
1:17:51That's another thing.
1:17:53We've got to get something.
1:17:54If our McConnell's happy, the ways of being will report it right to the Senate.
1:18:00Yeah.
1:18:03Which promptly will go over to the Senate and get attached to H.R. 1.
1:18:09and be able to veto the biggest money bill in the history of the nation.
1:18:13Okay.
1:18:15The other point that I can make is this.
1:18:24I'll get this.
1:18:25I shouldn't be getting, I don't want you to handle this crappy stuff.
1:18:29I should have, who is it, Coles?
1:18:30I don't want to get Schultz and things like that.
1:18:33I don't want to work with more than one person.
1:18:36What kind of thing is it?
1:18:37Well, this is a note from Griffin.
1:18:39And Griffin says that the Detroit judge brought.
1:18:46I would like to say that I have talked with you or the acting attorney general.
1:18:52And if the judge issues that order, and she is required in the next 10 days or so, the justice will immediately move and court the appeal, sustaining or defending the appeal.
1:19:04Martin.
1:19:04Martin, you can deliver that and Cole can write it.
1:19:09Well, could Griffin get a call?
1:19:11Yep.
1:19:12You bet.
1:19:30on the Muscogee Nine.
1:19:33It's very little business.
1:19:34It's a lost generation.
1:19:35Now that's a very good subject, if it's followed.
1:19:39But none of them will be able to do it unless they're followed.
1:19:46Connelly made a, according to all accounts, a burial speech, because it's on lupo, or something like that.
1:19:53or in a Q&A on loopholes on the exotic Chicago.
1:19:58I want the loophole thing circulated to his part on loopholes, circulated to congressmen, senators, and so forth, because he devastates the hell out of the Democrats and points out that the loopholes, like he said, for example, I believe in the loophole that provides for the municipal
1:20:20I believe in the loophole that allows you to deduct the taxes on your residents.
1:20:24I believe in the loophole that provides for this and that and that.
1:20:27You know what I mean?
1:20:28That's the way to do it.
1:20:29Take the intensity to kick them in the balls.
1:20:32Get the loophole thing.
1:20:33Get it down to one simple page for me and say, here's what the secretary said.
1:20:38You can call the commons office and see if one of their clowns has got it.
1:20:42He probably didn't answer your question because I know that's the way he operates with that.
1:20:45But they said his speech was very intuitive.
1:20:59I thought Henry was fine this morning.
1:21:01I mean, I thought it was fine.
1:21:03I was just thinking, though, after your presentation, that if we had told him 15 minutes, he would have been better.
1:21:10Am I right?
1:21:10I think so.
1:21:11I think so.
1:21:12Really, the exercise of boiling this down helps to...
1:21:16I think he was just still.
1:21:18It was still a half hour at the absolute outside.
1:21:22He used to do a half hour job, he used to do a half hour, period.
1:21:26But what you, you see, I know I have my word of discussion.
1:21:30That's what I probably didn't get across.
1:21:33Not his fault.
1:21:34He didn't mind.
1:21:36He's known it really is.
1:21:38He laid it out there.
1:21:39But I think the main thing is, if it's not a John Henry, Henry always be, frankly, with Congressmen and Senators at hand for it.
1:21:48And make it simple.
1:21:51study the problem, and then take the most abstruse thing, rather than making it more abstruse, which they often do in the elections, make it less.
1:22:01The thing about the Churchillian speeches, and any good speech, the longer you work on it, the more simple it becomes.
1:22:08Would you agree with that?
1:22:10The more you think about anything, you make it simpler.
1:22:12And our guys, the more they work on it, the more virtuous it becomes.
1:22:19Margaret J. Smith tottered up afterwards, and she said, oh, these one-page fact sheets are so helpful.
1:22:28She said, those big, thick things, I can never get through.
1:22:32Well, one of the questions I get through, that's right.
1:22:37Let me tell you.
1:22:37Let me tell you.
1:22:40We all need them.
1:22:42I mean, to be perfectly candid with you, it isn't the way I look for it.
1:22:49I prefer the six pages.
1:22:50I'll take it, read it, and I'll make up my own fact sheet.
1:22:53But I know my colleagues in the House and Senate, they will not do it on me.
1:22:57They will not do it.
1:22:58Most of them are too busy.
1:22:59And also most of them are not people that will sit in their ass and work it out.
1:23:04Don't you agree?
1:23:05So they toss it to an A.A. that just doesn't do it at all?
1:23:07The A.A. doesn't much work.
1:23:08And he doesn't have the, uh, any ante in the, with on their same wavelength.
1:23:12But we gotta give them, I want every meeting like this from now on, John, I want it actually done.
1:23:18And I want it simple.
1:23:19And I want it very pure, cold-blooded, disabled people.
1:23:22Right.
1:23:26Bob, one thing about this meeting with the Congressman, that should be McGregor's bag.
1:23:37I don't particularly see any reason to have it.
1:23:40I guess he can have all he wants, but he has to let the congressional ladies have it.
1:23:46The main thing, I'd have all of that.
1:23:48that you want to have.
1:23:50I would not, in this instance, have White House staff and White House the rest and so forth, because it's purely to butter up those goddamn clinics.
1:23:59On the other hand, I have about a hundred and twenty, and I have, you know what I mean, with round tables, with round tables, and
1:24:18they appear to me you know you've got to keep dates over just be sure they don't put over the date when i'm supposed to pack people to express my understanding now let's see a couple of other times
1:24:49on the move there.
1:24:50Keep hitting, but not on the basis of trying to kiss the ass of the farmers.
1:24:58Let's kiss the ass of the farmers.
1:25:00Keep hitting in terms of fighting the middle man, fighting the retailer.
1:25:03Kick the hell out of them.
1:25:04Let Clarence Adams and the rest of these guys, their lobbyists, let them squeal.
1:25:08Retailers are a bunch of bastards.
1:25:10Let's fight and make business.
1:25:11You understand?
1:25:12Well, Adam, he's saying the way to his thing, because he talked about it, and he said that
1:25:17because the supply is going to go back down and the prices are going to start coming back up again in December.
1:25:22But the House won't see them because of intensive pricing on the dish for most retailers.
1:25:29Whatever the situation is, I want to be sure that we're on the side of fighting high prices.
1:25:34I want to be sure we're on the side of fighting busting.
1:25:38I want to be sure we're on the side.
1:25:39You see, either remaining, the worst thing we can do is to be unbusted in the present and billable position that some congressmen think we're in.
1:25:47They're neither here nor there, right?
1:25:49That we cannot do, and they kill us.
1:25:52As a matter of fact, I think more people know about our busting position in the country than we may realize.
1:25:59I think that variable may be possible due to the fact that we did the television job.
1:26:06Well, the controversy helps that.
1:26:07Every time we're attacked by the blacks, that helps.
1:26:11Every time we're attacked by the libs, that helps.
1:26:14But every time we're attacked by the carnal karma, it doesn't help.
1:26:17So that's why you want to get the settlers to start attacking the libs.
1:26:29I don't know, maybe you gotta get that cop out and write a thing, a hotline thing.
1:26:39It's not getting much play.
1:26:41It's a story again this morning.
1:26:43It's a pretty good story.
1:26:45And we could keep trying to push the story.
1:26:49Let's see if you get my memorandum in regard to the players, the tactics, the issues, et cetera.
1:26:57Now, you talk over that, remember, with the little group.
1:27:00You, Erland, McGregor, did you decide to have Schultz or not?
1:27:05Well, my view is not that.
1:27:08Well, in a political group.
1:27:12I don't believe that you need pension funds.
1:27:14If you want to have them, you can.
1:27:16But I don't want to take pension away, frankly, from running the damn campaign too much, you know what I mean?
1:27:26You don't want the campaign separate from what's happening here either.
1:27:30I'm talking about, you're right, you've got to have pension for other reasons, because the players, the players, the players, yes, he should be there.
1:27:38Because if you will sit down and put these players down, then, you know, like when we, I mean, Colson was raised by them.
1:27:45He said, maybe we give it to somebody and I'll say, well, how about this one?
1:27:47I'll say, that's a good idea.
1:27:48That ain't the way to do it.
1:27:50The way to do it is to have that list of players and look down that list and say, is this one of Agnew and me?
1:27:56Or maybe this is the time we dip down and we pick up Sam Devine.
1:28:02Or we dip down and we say, well, this is a good colorful thing for the family to do.
1:28:07You see what I mean?
1:28:08Yeah.
1:28:09Can we do that?
1:28:09No, sir.
1:28:11But you've got to think in logical terms.
1:28:14I can't emphasize too strongly about the players, the issues, the appearances, and every day, sorry, I'm sorry.
1:28:26How crooked is this guy at San Diego this time?
1:28:29I don't know about that.
1:28:30It seems like a strange bunch of capital fish.
1:28:34This U.S. attorney?
1:28:34Yeah, one good thing about Vietnam at least.
1:28:37That would have been an ethical letter.
1:28:39There isn't any question of what he basically is.
1:28:43No, he just saved his pal from having to appear before a grand jury.
1:28:47He went around and interviewed him himself, which is very improper.
1:28:52But it was not so improper as to justify firing him.
1:28:59His pal ultimately got indicted, tried, and convicted.
1:29:02So, no way it all ended up.
1:29:05I was pleased to hear this call.
1:29:08Peterson, he's obviously getting interested in the job and so forth.
1:29:11If you were to kick him right in the ass in terms of getting him out to sell those things that are worth selling, I think you're going to find a willing at the time.
1:29:20But I think he's on the right track on a lot of things.
1:29:24We may eventually have to close the quality of life program.
1:29:31Interesting how his coloration has changed since he's been on that survey.
1:29:36Yeah, he was done with so strong of the environment.
1:29:39Now, the point that the president particularly made, and I think it's important, John,
1:29:45His idea of giving proactivity or morals, like Willard said to me.
1:29:50Has anybody thought about how we could do that?
1:29:53Well, you know, I made the radio talk about the dignity of work.
1:29:56Yeah.
1:29:57But who's going to do something about this?
1:30:00Well, I've asked Peterson.
1:30:01Let me tell you, let me, I want, I've got to follow him.
1:30:06The one thing about the Productivity Council, and here's where Peterson is so much better than Schultz.
1:30:10Schultz had me meet with that goddamn council four or five times, and I'd meet in the Cabinet Room, and Schultz said they were great.
1:30:15It's not his fault.
1:30:16And they didn't get one.
1:30:18All right.
1:30:19What are we going to do about it?
1:30:22Well, I've asked Peterson to do two things for me.
1:30:25One is to figure out some events that can be hung on productivity.
1:30:30The second is to do a speech, to actually write a speech,
1:30:34that could be put in your mouth by somebody else.
1:30:39What I'm thinking is, you know, this kid that got a lot of in yesterday or the day before that's come on the staff is the Italian who believes in the war campaign.
1:30:51He's an Italian.
1:30:53He's a former garbage man who's now on the White House staff.
1:31:03And dedicated to you because you wrote some humble beginnings and you believe in the work ethic.
1:31:13So he's going to help you do something.
1:31:17Well, let me see what Peterson comes up with.
1:31:20We've got him on a fairly minority business enterprise.
1:31:24I don't think there's much in that one.
1:31:26But I'm perfectly willing to use that as our Negro thing, if you've got to do a Negro thing.
1:31:32You know, I've been on that one.
1:31:34Peterson isn't aware of the fact of how often we've done stances.
1:31:37And remember, we've had stances where you could have, I went over to speak to him and he treated me.
1:31:42I think we've done an awful lot of stances, made at least 150 speeches on it.
1:31:47Is there anything in it?
1:31:48There's nothing for you to do.
1:31:49I think this is the kind of thing Peterson can do.
1:31:52Tell him, well, why didn't Stan sell it?
1:31:55Well, Stan sold it, but he sold it from the boardroom of the Chase Manhattan.
1:32:02And he never talked in political terms about it.
1:32:05It is our Negroes.
1:32:06Stimulating the inner city, which is why I don't think the inner city is something we want.
1:32:12The inner city is something pretty good to stay away from at the moment.
1:32:16I've got Romney coming in this afternoon on the inner cities.
1:32:19He made a line of speeches on that in Vietnam or something.
1:32:24Who, Romney?
1:32:24Yeah, yeah.
1:32:25Somebody called him up and made a speech.
1:32:27He really called?
1:32:28The president was very pleased with the speech on that.
1:32:31That would be nice, because I'm about to hit the fetuses and say, I know the problem with Romney, and I wish I could have told it to be resolved.
1:32:43I don't think there's, I'll tell you, I could go out here
1:33:13I really believe I could fire half the White House staff and replace them with blacks so that we have real salt and pepper to each other, she said.
1:33:26and i don't believe in terms of our winning credibility from this issue and i've gotten that pressure i don't think we can do it because they know very well that i just don't go for the all-out national integrationist lines
1:33:46because you'll never go find one that says you did a good job.
1:33:51The blacks can't let you get any credit because they can never say you've gone far enough and said you've done a good job.
1:33:56They've always got to take the line.
1:33:57You haven't done enough.
1:33:58No, maybe.
1:33:59I don't know Scotty's mom in this world.
1:34:01No, ma'am.
1:34:01I hate you so much, too.
1:34:15You come back with Churchill.
1:34:17But he's a, if they wrote the whole thing, he died.
1:34:20He became prime minister in 66.
1:34:25Then came back as prime minister again.
1:34:33Probably when he was 78.
1:34:38And he was damn good then in 53.
1:34:46And he lived more at 66 than most of us will ever live in our lives.
1:34:49Because he started at 20, running around the world.
1:35:40I haven't read it.
1:35:41Well, you'll have fun.
1:35:42I mean, so you look at the television.
1:35:45It's too volume.
1:35:46Too volume.
1:35:47It's too volume.
1:35:48And when you wake up at night, it just doesn't read it.
1:35:51I like it.
1:35:51It's a kind of, I mean, it isn't basically, it's a bad one.
1:35:55Jenny and Herschel's a rather bad one.
1:35:58But nevertheless, the main point is, it's a brilliant discussion of British politics.
1:36:03And tells you how people are handling the rest of it.
1:36:07But the amazing thing was, there was a woman when she was 66 who married a man of 41.
1:36:12And then died the next year.
1:36:21That age factor.
1:36:24That's the reason I'm here.
1:36:26You're hardly coming in here one month on that 59-year-old man, and we're stacking that goddamn thing with 41 girls.
1:36:33It's killing.
1:36:33You don't know what it's worth.
1:36:37We're not getting people that aren't going to see us already.
1:36:39That's what's really bothering me.
1:36:42Cotton did pretty well today.
1:36:43He stayed awake through the whole meeting.
1:36:45He really did?
1:36:46Yeah.
1:36:47He stayed awake.
1:36:53We're back at the same point with Clint East.
1:36:57In that our posture now is that Urban won't confirm unless Flanagan testifies.
1:37:05All right.
1:37:06He will not accept the statement.
1:37:07He will not accept it.
1:37:09Flanagan's heart won't go over.
1:37:11Answered all his questions.
1:37:13Senator said, yeah, that's fine.
1:37:14You just come up and tell him to make that.
1:37:17As soon as he finishes planning it, he wants Erland.
1:37:20And when he finishes that, he wants the rest of the vest.
1:37:26The result of that is that it's clear now that Eastman feels that there's no way he can get planning.
1:37:32He's concurrent.
1:37:33He can't get his hearings ended.
1:37:35He can't get on the floor.
1:37:37Eastman has come up with an option, discussed with Mitchell last night, which is that he will go to Mansfield.
1:37:47And he and Encio, he wanted to do it today, he and Encio would move to drop the hearings until after the election.
1:37:55And we'd point each to the acting attorney general and say that it's clear that there's no point in pursuing the confirmation proceedings under the political atmosphere that prevails.
1:38:08That would leave you with the problem, you said you didn't want to be left with, of an acting attorney general.
1:38:15It would also leave the question zero points out of an attorney general, an acting attorney general under indictment who hasn't been cleared.
1:38:24Sure.
1:38:26And there's an issue.
1:38:29So if you talk to Mitchell about that.
1:38:33Yes, indeed.
1:38:34What's he going to do?
1:38:37Did you raise the point in the last meeting that every Democratic speaker would be out there and say we can't confirm it because he's a crook?
1:38:45Yeah.
1:38:45What do you say?
1:38:47He's been wrong on it all.
1:38:48He figures that the other options are he would draw a line east, start all over, and then he would turn general.
1:38:55Or to send Flanagan out and let him testify on the germane matters only, which our people will all say is, see, that would satisfy Irvin.
1:39:04Irvin's made it clear it would not now.
1:39:07His third option is to fight it out, which probably would be forever.
1:39:11In other words, now the hearings and everything's going.
1:39:15The fourth option was raised by the Gregory today, which was to move now to withdraw the Kleindienst nomination and submit a Superman
1:39:29as Attorney General, with or without, he proposes with, the understanding that that guy would only take the job for the balance of the shares.
1:39:39A silent understanding.
1:39:40A silent understanding, yeah, not a public understanding.
1:39:43He re-claims he's deputy, which he already is, and has been confirmed that.
1:39:48So you aren't admitting Clineen's guilt.
1:39:50You're keeping him in the office.
1:39:52You're keeping him in the head of it.
1:39:54You aren't affirming it.
1:39:55No, no, he says a Lewis Powell.
1:39:57And a guy that the Senate will...
1:39:59The feeling being that if you put a clean man...
1:40:03If, for example, you were to send John down for attorney general, they'd cut you up for the same reason Schroeder and all these people.
1:40:12If you sent the only other one, we're talking this thing in shock, the only other one you could send down was McGregor.
1:40:19Same problem.
1:40:20And they'd cut McGregor because I think they'd cut him up for...
1:40:26I don't think so.
1:40:28I think McGregor's idea was a dean of the Harvard Law School quote-unquote title.
1:40:39Well, that was one name we kicked around, and the guy from Texas is another one.
1:40:43Right.
1:40:43Yeah, but he's got flies on him.
1:40:45And after kicking all these around, we came up with an interesting parlor, which is to put Elliot Richardson in and move Weingart over to AGW.
1:40:58both of which might be very good notes.
1:41:01Richard, of course, is a potential member of any cabinet and of the Supreme Court, as we all know, if you're in that direction.
1:41:18He runs the shop well, and he has proved to be loyal.
1:41:23Why are you a victim now?
1:41:27I think so.
1:41:29They feel that he's so close to them that he's a really better option.
1:41:37I'm not deciding.
1:41:39I just want to see what our options are.
1:41:51Well, one advantage of Weinberger is you can vote if you want plaintiffs later on as Attorney General.
1:41:58You can move Weinberger in as attorney general now with an understanding with him that you move him to a court later.
1:42:04Yeah.
1:42:06And Weinberger wants to be attorney general so bad he can taste it.
1:42:10Yeah.
1:42:12He wants to go.
1:42:13That makes a difference.
1:42:14He has some advantage.
1:42:15Some advantage.
1:42:16That is, he's considered by many to be true.
1:42:21Yeah.
1:42:21And he doesn't deny it, does he?
1:42:23I don't know whether he does or not.
1:42:25I would say relevant anywhere is the fact that people think he's Jewish.
1:42:29And we know that the guy is a hell of a lot more conservative than people realize.
1:42:34And he will program when he wants to.
1:42:36Yes.
1:42:38He'll program him on anything.
1:42:39He's on good standing, according to Clark, on the Hill.
1:42:45Did he have a job with P.S. ?
1:42:48Yeah, I see.
1:42:48Yeah, very good.
1:42:49Very good.
1:42:51He's in very fat with the Bar Association.
1:42:54You do not have to do anything, of course, with Kleinbeech because he's already been confirmed for death's record.
1:42:59He only stays on there.
1:43:03Well, my feeling about having Kleinbeech stay on
1:43:14I still feel that the best thing you have to do with a thing like this is to cut your goddamn losses, if you can, and get out.
1:43:21Now, what Mitchell's argument is that if you don't cut the losses, the Kennedy, the Urban, and the rest are going to continue the investigation.
1:43:29And in other areas, if that's the case, hell, let's just let them continue to investigate Klein piece.
1:43:34Do you see my point?
1:43:36What's your argument about that?
1:43:38This is all it's seen.
1:43:41I've got the brain in waiting.
1:43:44I just wanted to tell you, Butz is in Moscow, and Breshman called him in, and he's slobbering all over him.
1:43:56In fact, it's funny, he's trying to imitate you.
1:44:03He said Breshman boasts about his own good memory, having no need to take notes.
1:44:09And being at all times aware and able of, I don't know what to say.
1:44:16Acknowledging the Soviet Union's people and technical peace, the President stressed that the two greatest nations must live together in mutual respect and understanding.
1:44:24That's yesterday.
1:44:25That was yesterday afternoon.
1:44:26The President actually gave that shot.
1:44:29He said, Brezhnev intervened to ask Secretary Katz to bring to the President's attention a peace feeling that Soviet people had over the communism that we had done.
1:44:38They thought this was unnecessary.
1:44:40It's sad, though.
1:44:42It's nice.
1:44:44You don't consider that idea that way.
1:44:47It's sad, but all the people that care about it.
1:44:51He said, Brezhnev then said,
1:44:55President Nixon would be given a big welcome in the Soviet Union.
1:44:58The visit would be a new big step since he was sure they would find many boys in common.
1:45:04He had been in touch with the President recently answering some of his questions.
1:45:07The President would be invited to stay in the Kremlin and would be given a flag.
1:45:16And on and on and on.
1:45:17He's just saying about the president.
1:45:20Now, it turned out, Mr. President, that the charge submitted by those who are using it, who won't delete it, are wrong.
1:45:36are off by one kilometer north of New Zealand.
1:45:38So they didn't hear anything this last night.
1:45:41Well, no.
1:45:42They had this happen.
1:45:43The bombing errors compensated themselves.
1:45:45One of them, they absolutely knocked out the rail opening.
1:45:50The other one, by accident.
1:45:53No, the other one missed, but it seems to have blown out every window in vain.
1:45:57And they are absolutely scared out of their mind.
1:46:00That's why they don't pronounce it.
1:46:01They have yet to explain that they were bombed there.
1:46:06But what it meant is that we had to scrap two of the targets this afternoon, and we're only attacking an airfield, which is almost unworthy, but... Why are we scrapping there?
1:46:19Well, because if they're off by one, those two were at the outskirts.
1:46:22Well, can't they correct it?
1:46:24Well, they don't know yet in which direction.
1:46:26Are they bombing visually?
1:46:28Don't tell me.
1:46:28Don't tell me.
1:46:31How's the weather at the DMC, anybody?
1:46:34The weather in military region one has improved, and...
1:46:39They made it something there?
1:46:42Yeah.
1:46:42Oh, yes.
1:46:43And who violated my instructions about...
1:46:48The air cavalry people take as photographers and they take pictures.
1:46:52You see that picture of the Washington Post and people getting off a helicopter with their guns and so forth.
1:46:58You saw that picture, yeah.
1:47:00It is not a big thing.
1:47:02My point is, though, it's just the kind of these sons of bitches are trying to do.
1:47:05But actually, Mr. President, the TV is not as bad as these photographers went off.
1:47:10I mean, the CBS, for example, last night had an almost glowing account
1:47:17of how well the South Vietnamese were fighting.
1:47:22That's the third course, but up in Songha, they show captured Soviet tanks, and they say the next time they come back, they'll meet them even more.
1:47:33I just want to be sure that you put the restrictions
1:47:38Oh, and hey, hey, keep the restrictions on any pictures of Americans in that battle zone down.
1:47:44They carry a photographer up there.
1:47:46They have that.
1:47:47Huh?
1:47:48Almost certain.
1:47:49Sure.
1:47:49I think the son of a bitch got in there.
1:47:51He walked.
1:47:54I thought, Henry, did Henry carry out any orders like you?
1:48:02Well, I don't think Abrams has gotten the message yet, but he will.
1:48:05Because Walt talked to Moore this morning, and he said Abrams just doesn't understand that Abrams is fighting a very good battle for winning.
1:48:18The battle?
1:48:19The battle, yes.
1:48:20But the real point is, which the politicians understood this morning, is that we have to win the war.
1:48:26And so they don't start again.
1:48:29And also so that we also set the stage for negotiation and end everything, which we could well do if we hit them now.
1:48:35But the point is, Henry, your B-52 thing very much disturbed me, though, because we can't, if we don't hit them today.
1:48:42I know we're hitting them, but I don't know what I mean.
1:48:46Find something else to get them.
1:48:49I'm just afraid if we order them, and they get civilians, then it will be the president who orders them.
1:48:56Well, I'm concerned about it.
1:48:58We order them, they lose the plane.
1:48:59That's true, but it's a pity.
1:49:03I was outraged when I heard it.
1:49:06I calmed down.
1:49:07You tell more about this outrage.
1:49:10But at least we have the congressional people.
1:49:14But it's moving on.
1:49:16But you know, these people in there, they're all for what we're doing.
1:49:20They don't even hear it.
1:49:22And what about all those Catholics?
1:49:24Why doesn't somebody make a point?
1:49:25Oh, I've said we haven't.
1:49:27I've been miscalculated upon the American public.
1:49:30So far.
1:49:31Let me say this, though, Henry.
1:49:34That commonly makes the point very strongly.
1:49:37And I feel it very strongly.
1:49:39as long as you've got it for two or three days, bust them.
1:49:43Because then it'll change.
1:49:45And we don't, and then we won't be able to bust them.
1:49:47And also you want to remember, you've got to hit them so they say ouch, and then you quit hitting them and they, and then they need you something for it.
1:49:55That's what we're going to do.
1:49:56That's why you're bombing the North.
1:49:57It's a denunciating thing.
1:49:59The first time the weather cleared a stick and we hit the 300th airplane.
1:50:03Where?
1:50:03The North?
1:50:04Yes.
1:50:04What do you mean, the DNC's on?
1:50:06Well, the death could go up to 540 miles.
1:50:08How about the Navy?
1:50:10Did the goddamn Navy go up there or not?
1:50:12They're going up very systematically.
1:50:14And you said the Navy had only an 80's charge.
1:50:16You told me 30.
1:50:17I was going to tell how many are there now.
1:50:21There are 18 there now.
1:50:22All right.
1:50:24Why not 30?
1:50:24I thought we ordered 33.
1:50:26There are 10 more coming with the Midway.
1:50:29And they'll be there next Tuesday.
1:50:31And there are five more coming in this week.
1:50:34We have one cruiser.
1:50:35We'll have two more soon.
1:50:36We'll have, we have two cruisers.
1:50:38And there'll be one more soon.
1:50:39Two more soon.
1:50:42And, well, the reason they have, they've fired 10,000 shells into Northeastern.
1:50:47I hate things, and I agree with them, that this naval selling is more demoralizing for them than the economy.
1:50:54It's because it means that city gets, imagine living in Dong Hoi also, and also anybody, I know very little about it.
1:51:01I've never been under shell fire in some years.
1:51:04I haven't.
1:51:06I've had a modest bombing, and it's frightening enough.
1:51:13And you're just sitting there and wondering whether it's an economic urgence, a direct hit, or a boxhole.
1:51:18But they tell me that shell fire is the goddamnedest thing that there is.
1:51:23It is.
1:51:24It's coming.
1:51:24Oh, it's coming.
1:51:25And you know how accurate it is, too.
1:51:26I helped in the Air Force for the day.
1:51:30You must be a good chair on this, Henry.
1:51:32We were a lead crew in the 8th Air Force and dropped tons and tons of bombs.
1:51:38Our bombardier and our lead crew, everybody, you know, dropped on us.
1:51:41When we dropped, everybody else dropped.
1:51:43Turned out they had 2,200 eyesight after we'd been at this about four months.
1:51:48You couldn't see it then?
1:51:50You couldn't see it then, I'm telling you.
1:51:54So even, can I ask Henry if, after you see the brain, what time will that be?
1:51:59Are you lunching with him?
1:52:03And then I'm going to New York to see the Chinese.
1:52:06I think we better give them a job.
1:52:07What time are you going to China?
1:52:09I'm leaving about 2.30 or quarter to 3.
1:52:13I'll talk to you tomorrow.
1:52:15You've been looking over to China.
1:52:17The canvas is... That's good.
1:52:19I wouldn't turn this through on the Soviets more than the Soviets' tremendous speech in Canada.
1:52:28Uh, this?
1:52:29Well, I, you saw what we wrote.
1:52:31That's fine.
1:52:31All right, that's good.
1:52:33But I don't get that.
1:52:34Because it is tough for them.
1:52:36Well, if you do that, those two are fine.
1:52:38No.
1:52:39Remember, I raised the question.
1:52:40It's better than we have to be baroques now.
1:52:43What they don't, if we play a game of being very careful and deliberate, they'll drag us into maturity.
1:52:50Let me take a question.
1:52:51Take one, and you tell him to bring it up.
1:52:56They want something.
1:53:10the French have made a formal appeal to us.
1:53:12Yeah, that's nice.
1:53:14To return to the conference that when I say to call them in and protest, say that we won't listen to such talk.
1:53:22Well, they know very well what they're doing.
1:53:26The state wanted to protest our clueless tensions and do not have anything in any way to imagine.
1:53:32I said that we had to be ferocious now.
1:53:35Throughout the whole course this morning, he said his men talked to the North Vietnamese in Paris and they seemed to have been in a state of shock.
1:53:44Great powers must not use the atmospheres of the economy as an energy with which to prepare for subsequent efforts, and listen to me, sir, this is our argument, to achieve their objectives, you don't allow them to bring them their pressure.
1:53:57The betterment of relations is required through strength by great nations, both towards each other and towards other nations.
1:54:04Limitations of arms and declarations of peace and purposes will not bring peace if the aggressive use of existing weapons is encouraged directly or indirectly.
1:54:12In this respect, a special responsibility falls upon great powers who cannot avoid responsibility for the aggressive actions of those to whom they give the mainstream mark of aggression.
1:54:22Great powers must use their influence to halt aggressions, not to encourage them.
1:54:30I think it's excellent.
1:54:32But that, I think, the half-concept is, we shouldn't make any other statements until then, or afterward.
1:54:37I think it's very good.
1:54:43Well, Scott wanted to go out today.
1:54:46That's why I mentioned it to you.
1:54:49I told him not to mention the Soviets.
1:54:52No one in Ocala even did a trip with Joe.
1:54:53Christ, he didn't want to do that.
1:54:55Are you kidding?
1:54:56No, Scott, Scott Hughes is the other.
1:54:59Scott wanted to say, he says, can I go out and say that you will announce, I don't think we're going forward, but you will announce another troop withdrawal in May.
1:55:08I said, no, Hugh, you can say the President will make another announcement.
1:55:12before the 1st of May, and it will be based on the assessment of the situation at that time.
1:55:18You know, but you see what I mean?
1:55:20Dex conquers our bets again, doesn't it?
1:55:22Absolutely.
1:55:23And we've got to keep this unrelenting drive going now.
1:55:26I think they're going to crack.
1:55:27I think they're really going to.
1:55:30Well, there will be if we can get a few bombs off.
1:55:35Oh, okay.
1:55:35But even more than the bombs, Mr. President, this tremendous concentration of naval power, they have to figure we're going to go much beyond it.
1:55:44You're now servicing submarine.
1:55:46I'm going to go to Camp David tonight.
1:55:52You call me there.
1:55:54Well, there's nothing to call about the gun.
1:55:56And so the strike, what are we doing?
1:55:57Sending two or three Bs or twos?
1:55:59No, we're sending twenty-four Bs and twos.
1:56:01To do what?
1:56:02To knock out that A-2 that's got ten legs on it.
1:56:05Yeah.
1:56:06And it helps calibrate.
1:56:08And is it, is it in one where it's relatively safe?
1:56:11Oh, yeah.
1:56:12Is that, is the A-2 not screwing around about the safety?
1:56:14No.
1:56:15What?
1:56:17The gun that you sent to him.
1:56:20to get bombing actors, they're doing it through a combination of radar and computer.
1:56:27Well, they have too much technical stuff.
1:56:30Well, just get out and fly a little bit.
1:56:34I think it's a tragedy in a way, because if we had it near Tangwa, which we were going to do, that would have been a good signal.
1:56:43But we can't find it.
1:56:45It was just too dangerous.
1:56:47If they drop it on the city and kill 10,000 people, we are through.
1:56:53I think, I think we are experiencing a battle and not considering more seriously the blockade at this point.
1:57:01I don't think we should do it before the meeting is ready for.
1:57:07Aren't you late then?
1:57:08No.
1:57:08Do you want a public opinion?
1:57:11Oh, we will have a public, as long as the South Vietnamese hold, we'll have a public opinion.
1:57:16Well, we hope so.
1:57:24Coming back to this thing, what is the argument about...
1:57:28I just don't think you can keep one of these on.
1:57:38Special argument to keep him on?
1:57:40Strong?
1:57:41Genuine?
1:57:41What?
1:57:41You mean to keep the nomination in?
1:57:44Yes.
1:57:45No, we have that argument to keep him on.
1:57:52Not confirmed.
1:57:53You can make a case for it.
1:57:54Well, I'm sure you can.
1:57:56But stop the hearings?
1:57:57How the hell do they stop the hearings?
1:57:59Well, that's the other thing.
1:58:00That's what Eastland is suggesting.
1:58:03That there's no reason to believe that Eastland can get Mansfield to agree to that.
1:58:07And even if Mansfield did agree?
1:58:09Well, how the hell do they get the votes in the committee?
1:58:13Mansfield's about to leave town.
1:58:15So he leaves.
1:58:18Now Byrd, we've lost Byrd, which is the other problem that Eastland's got.
1:58:23Yeah.
1:58:24Byrd has demanded that I may testify.
1:58:28Now what is planning it now?
1:58:30What is it that they want to testify about?
1:58:32Is it about the San Diego thing?
1:58:33Well, now it's his first consultant.
1:58:36Oh, yeah.
1:58:36And that's no problem.
1:58:37And he has, in effect, with the letter he set up, said that and done that.
1:58:42I know.
1:58:45Well...
1:58:47I'm sure it is.
1:58:47But the point is, it isn't planning and testifying that they want.
1:58:50I know.
1:58:51They want it.
1:58:51Busting the dam up.
1:58:53It's eventually Henry that they want.
1:58:55The urbanists determined that Craig was saying that.
1:58:58Well, sure, so were we when we were tracking it.
1:59:00In his case, I was doing it by myself.
1:59:02We were doing it by various people.
1:59:05I was satisfied.
1:59:05I thought, damn, why didn't it come down?
1:59:07They were right.
1:59:07It couldn't.
1:59:10Captain, excuse me, come down.
1:59:13But any of that, a message that they wanted, we're not going to put him down there.
1:59:18Peter would do all right.
1:59:21There's no stopping that.
1:59:23And there's no lying drawn against future situations.
1:59:39Well, there'll be no compromise in the J.D.
1:59:41principle, I agree.
1:59:43Is that what you say, John?
1:59:44That'd be my recommendation.
1:59:45All right.
1:59:46Having that in mind, something we're not going to have or what's going to happen.
1:59:55Well then, I guess, Eastland's lost control of his committee.
1:59:59That being so.
2:00:02And that being so, climbing to the dead end of him.
2:00:05It's a question of how you bury him.
2:00:12I think you've got a great statement to say about politics.
2:00:15It's a political thing.
2:00:17I think it's a partisan politics.
2:00:21Now, what does that do with regard to the other hearings?
2:00:24That's what I'm concerned about.
2:00:26Aren't they going to go forward with the hearings anyway?
2:00:29I raised this before about what a person these people are.
2:00:32They don't think so.
2:00:36Do you mean that they won't go forward with the hearing?
2:00:38In fact, they're looking at San Diego and Arnold Smith and people going to the committee.
2:00:47Well, the subcommittee, the Kennedy subcommittee might approve by the committee.
2:00:53Well, I guess they did not.
2:00:54So the subcommittee will go forward, huh?
2:00:59I wonder if John wouldn't appear to be a little bit of someone harassing them.
2:01:04Maybe they'd say, we were trying to avoid the hearings.
2:01:07The subject is much bigger than Kleine's.
2:01:10We've got to get to the bottom of all this, according to the administration.
2:01:12They might, right?
2:01:13They might.
2:01:14And if it isn't this, it'll be something else.
2:01:17You'll never, from now to November, we're going to have oversight hearings on everything you can imagine.
2:01:24And would you say that's the case?
2:01:26I'd rather have this hearing go on than... Oh, but you'll have the others, too.
2:01:29You'll have the others, too.
2:01:30Yeah, I don't think this is going to be a substitute for the others.
2:01:35The San Diego thing is pretty thin.
2:01:38And once they've had Peterson, if they have his agent today, it seems to me they'll draw most of the poison.
2:01:47The Arnhold Smith's a fat target.
2:01:50Somebody might want to have a hearing just to get him up.
2:01:53and shoot at him a while.
2:01:56But if that's going to be, that's going to be, whether it's in Clandeen's thing or somewhere else.
2:02:08Well then, I guess, Eastland's lost control of his committee, that being so.
2:02:15And that being so, Clandeen's a dead Indian.
2:02:18It's a question of how you bury him.
2:02:25I think you've got a great commitment to say that politics is a piece of political, they might be a piece of partisan politics, and then you stand up and say, now, what does that do with regard to the other hearings?
2:02:37That's what I'm concerned about.
2:02:39Aren't they going to go forward with the hearings anyway?
2:02:42I raised this before about what a person these people are.
2:02:46Gregory doesn't think so.
2:02:49You mean that they won't go forward with the earth?
2:02:51In fact, they're looking at San Diego and Arnold Smith and people going to the committee won't.
2:02:59The subcommittee, the Kennedy subcommittee might approve by the committee.
2:03:06Well, I guess they did not.
2:03:09So the subcommittee will go forward, huh?
2:03:12I wonder if John wouldn't appear to be a little bit of someone harassing them.
2:03:18Maybe they'd say, we were trying to avoid the hearings.
2:03:21The subject is much bigger than Kleine's.
2:03:23We've got to get to the bottom of all this crudeness in the administration.
2:03:25They might, right?
2:03:26They might.
2:03:28And if it isn't this, it'll be something else.
2:03:30You'll never, from now to November, we're going to have oversight hearings on everything you can imagine.
2:03:37And would you say that's the case?
2:03:39I'd rather have this hearing go on than... Oh, but you'll have the others, too.
2:03:42You'll have the others, too.
2:03:44Yeah, I don't think this is going to be a substitute for the others.
2:03:48The San Diego thing is pretty thin.
2:03:51And once they've had Peterson, if they have this agent today, it seems to me they'll draw most of the poison.
2:04:00The Arnhold Smith's a fat target.
2:04:03Somebody might want to have a hearing just to get him up.
2:04:06and shoot at him a while.
2:04:09But if that's going to be, that's going to be, whether it's in a climbing sting or somewhere else.
2:04:11Well, that's our problem today.
2:04:12I don't know what happened to me.
2:04:37I just wonder, though, about riding through the whole recollection of an acting attorney general.
2:04:47What's your view?
2:04:48I've actually got a problem.
2:04:49The point of this race today is that it is another one that we haven't discussed that seems to bother me, and that is that Klangdienst as acting attorney general is going to have a lot of mental reservations himself on the things he does and doesn't do.
2:05:06He's going to be afraid to offend any of the Senators.
2:05:10He's going to avoid...
2:05:12I mean, it just can't help but hang over his head and affect the way he goes at things that we may need to get done or want to get done.
2:05:22Sure.
2:05:24You could...
2:05:25I think you could exist with an acting Attorney General, but not Kleindienst.
2:05:32Because for Kleindienst now to be acting Attorney General...
2:05:36is to have an indicted man.
2:05:39Correct.
2:05:39Indicted, not convicted, but indicted.
2:05:43And not cleared.
2:05:48It's just the each and every one of them.
2:05:54Somebody else could, I think, successfully perform the duties.
2:05:56I'm afraid so.
2:05:57You could put it in a library, and they just didn't get around to the department.
2:06:02It would be no problem.
2:06:04It's free.
2:06:07Well, the other thing you could do is put in a Weinberger and not submit it for confirmation.
2:06:13Just appoint him as acting Attorney General.
2:06:15But I don't know what you gain by that.
2:06:17I don't know why.
2:06:18The only thing you gain by that, you get a little grandstand on the busing thing if you say, I want the Senate Judiciary to cope with the busing problem ahead of this confirmation.
2:06:30And I can take the head of service acting Attorney General until then.
2:06:34That is a pressing, pressing issue, and too much time is a lapse.
2:06:40You might get a little grandstand out of that.
2:06:44Pretty clever.
2:06:45And to avoid any problems that might arise, point her to your consolation.
2:06:51Watch for the very thing that you confirm rather swiftly.
2:06:55No.
2:06:55There's a reaction.
2:06:57There's nothing else.
2:07:00Basically, the Jewish... Yeah, but the Senate would leap at the opportunity to confirm somebody, because by their haste in doing so, they would prove Kleine's guilt.
2:07:12In other words, the only reason they wouldn't prove Kleine's was not because they're trying to block you, but because he was guilty.
2:07:27I really would agree.
2:07:29Gregor just called in saying there were eight votes in the executive session this morning, the result of which is to give us more time.
2:07:36We don't need a decision in the next few hours now.
2:07:40Eight votes?
2:07:40I don't know if they voted on it, but.
2:07:48They've been on witness.
2:07:52Proceed.
2:08:07And he's always wanted to crack this executive privilege thing.
2:08:19Ever since we got here, he's been chipping away at it.
2:08:28That's one place where, that is not new, is it?
2:08:32Comes up all the time.
2:08:33But he's got a dandy here because he's got about half the senior White House staff on his list.
2:08:37Well, and the leverage is, you know, just ideal.
2:08:42He's just been waiting for a place to get his lever.
2:09:05What is the situation?
2:09:07Mitchell wants to see it through.
2:09:13His judgment is not good.
2:09:14He's too close to it.
2:09:18What does McGregor think we should do?
2:09:21The last plan was McGregor's idea.
2:09:23He came up with it last night as he was trying to find a clean can of esta clean.
2:09:30Well, but do you consider that what he considered, you don't know the name of Weingart?
2:09:35Yeah, the name Weingart, he would not consider Weingart
2:09:40Meaning exactly, he's not a Louis Louis Powell, but he thinks he would be confirmed.
2:09:45I think of all the administration people, he's got a game of people.
2:09:48He's not anybody else.
2:09:49No, no, no.
2:09:51We've got to keep this job in the administration.
2:09:54That's what I thought.
2:09:55What's our Louis Louis Powell?
2:09:57Why do I notice I've got a company that's starting to bring in antitrust groups?
2:10:01They start looking at them all the time.
2:10:03I go, hell no, I'm not going to do that.
2:10:05That's, you know, you've got to throw over the casket.
2:10:08Cap was the guy who was in action.
2:10:13Well, Cap still has a right to assume that he'll get the Jewish seat on the court.
2:10:19As long as he assumes that without anybody having said anything to him, he's under control.
2:10:24Sure.
2:10:25He wants that more than anything else in the whole world.
2:10:28You've got to run to him.
2:10:31It doesn't settle for as we were talking about for the Ninth Circuit, maybe.
2:10:34Or San Francisco.
2:10:35But only if you went to them and said, Cap, there's no chance for you.
2:10:39Take this, you know, because otherwise that's... That's why the worst possible way to go is to get back to San Francisco.
2:10:45She's gone.
2:10:46She leaves?
2:10:46Yeah.
2:10:46Yeah.
2:10:46If I go back, I'm going to turn back.
2:10:54So you can just walk on the edge of it?
2:10:59She's not God.
2:11:01No, she isn't.
2:11:01She's a character.
2:11:06That's what I was thinking.
2:11:08She's not much.
2:11:32I'll tell you, there's another guy around that fits this category, and that's Jim Lynn.
2:11:38Really?
2:11:40He's too young, I suppose.
2:11:42No, no, no.
2:11:43He's clean as hell.
2:11:44I think he's absolutely clean and so forth.
2:11:46Probably too young to have a lot.
2:11:49Cap, I think, is sort of in a position where he's not an engineer.
2:11:53I think you probably could.
2:11:55That'd be four years of hearing.
2:12:22They sell tickets for that.
2:12:27I don't think he could live with Kleindies there.
2:12:30I don't think Kleindies, frankly, looks like a good marketer.
2:12:54somewhere in there.
2:12:55I just don't think it quite comes off.
2:12:57I think he handles himself very well.
2:13:00I just think the idea that he's an indicted man, where law enforcement is so important to him.
2:13:06Of course, he'll still be indicted, but that is all right.
2:13:12You'll be able to separate it away.
2:13:17Let's go somewhere.
2:13:19I would say that he likes this plan.
2:13:27He personally admits that Eastland can't swing his committee.
2:13:34And McGregor said, as he pointed out two weeks ago, that Eastland made it very clear that his plan was to set up a new staff design committee.
2:13:52Now, one problem you have is that you will, by moving a Weinberger in, you'll be going against Eastland, who wants findings to be able to help Eastland.
2:14:03Well, what I meant is that we've got to send a man that is good up there, and he can get confirmed.
2:14:10Eastland's got to go.
2:14:12Eastland's probably going to have some evidence.
2:14:17It's great.
2:14:18The chances are true that he isn't.
2:14:29I don't think that from a PR standpoint, really, if we find these, I just don't feel it.
2:14:36I don't want to have that Democratic convention being held there.
2:14:40I mean, they will still talk about IT&T and how you couldn't get the land use procurement.
2:14:44That's fine.
2:14:45How much do you make out of the fact that they could attack Ames or Carlswell?
2:14:49We didn't get it confirmed, you know what I mean?
2:14:53Once they were confirmed, it was pretty goddamn hard to attack.
2:14:57Would you agree?
2:14:57Yes.
2:14:58There's some residue, but it's marginal.
2:15:01And the important thing here is to cut your losses.
2:15:07And get going.
2:15:09You can't unwind the bell as it's rung so far.
2:15:11Now there's another good reason to do this.
2:15:14No.
2:15:16Fast.
2:15:17Got to be enough to cover that.
2:15:19Sure.
2:15:19I mean, just put it right in the middle.
2:15:21There's bombs in the north and everything.
2:15:23You know what I mean?
2:15:25I don't believe in waiting.
2:15:26That would be the big story.
2:15:30And I think you should talk to Mitchell when you get out there.
2:15:34I think we can persuade one of them to tell you.
2:15:43I'll take that job.
2:15:44Well, Mitchell, have you ever raised Mitchell's, uh, winder with Mitchell?
2:15:49No.
2:15:49I don't know.
2:15:50No, not to that.
2:15:51He will be against it.
2:15:52He'll say, well, he's not law and order, he's a Jew, and all that.
2:15:55The thing to do is to say, John, we'll control him.
2:15:58That's the lie.
2:16:00He'll do what we say to him.
2:16:02He'll take it on a temporary basis.
2:16:04Same thing.
2:16:04Lie and anything that's necessary from this score.
2:16:07the point is we can't we've got to have a value we can get it confirmed and he will play ball where he's never had a timeline where he's played ball he creates embarrassing i'm just saying also you might find mitchell
2:16:24because of his strange, perverted ideas about the Jewish folk, he might like that, you know what I mean?
2:16:33He said, well, he could say, here, John, it's the way we at least get a little credit with the Jews.
2:16:38That's the credit with Reagan.
2:16:41Reagan likes it.
2:16:42Yeah, Reagan's pushing for the Supreme Court.
2:16:44He gets credit with the Jews.
2:16:48He's a California man.
2:16:58The wine burger is a lot different from Goldwater.
2:17:04Goldwater also is half Jewish.
2:17:07The difference is the wine burger
2:17:16who probably is more than half Jewish, whatever it is, and he looks Jewish.
2:17:21He looks Jewish, and he runs with that community in San Francisco now, in the space of 10.
2:17:27That's true, one.
2:17:29Not much.
2:17:29I mean, he has a much more Jewish look.
2:17:32The owner doesn't look Jewish at all.
2:17:36He ran a goddamn good office, too.
2:17:39Sure.
2:17:40He'd shave that old boy's head.
2:17:45He and Clankys are not going to work well together, we might guess.
2:17:51Well, Clankys has got to be found something else for him.
2:17:54This is something that will break his heart.
2:17:57But he's a loyal, good guy, and we've just got to find something else in him that doesn't require confirmation.
2:18:04Actually, he could probably be confirmed for something else.
2:18:09This whole farrago up there has not been really about Clankys.
2:18:14They haven't laid a glove on him in terms of culpability.
2:18:22He's sort of the occasion.
2:18:24He's the innocent victim.
2:18:25And I would think we'd want to play it that way.
2:18:28Well, I think he should go out.
2:18:31He's got to make a moderate statement.
2:18:34If I'm asking the president to withdraw my name,
2:18:39Because, again, we should do it, I think we should, frankly, I go up seven during the television.
2:18:45I have a statement to make, and they all know what it is, and I'm asking to withdraw it.
2:18:49I won't embarrass them.
2:18:51And then just lashed out at the committee and so forth and so on.
2:18:57More important than my confirmation here is a chance to, you know, people have written some speech on it.
2:19:04You have to make the cut again.
2:19:07You can't invoke separation of powers, the strength of the Constitution, the urban strife of the road.
2:19:12It's evident that there'd be filibuster, it'd be bad for the president's legislation, it'd be bad for the party.
2:19:20Well, he can say it for a check.
2:19:21He can make the bust.
2:19:23Sure, for a check.
2:19:24This committee, there'd be a delay.
2:19:26Well, I think it's very important.
2:19:28Yeah, that busts.
2:19:29That would cut her.
2:19:30That would cut her.
2:19:32They're delaying it because of it.
2:19:35And we cannot continue to delay the business of this committee and the business of this Senate and put it on the bus.
2:19:46John has got to realize, too, is that he's got some vision for Friday here, too.
2:19:51The longer this goddamn thing goes on, this one.
2:19:55about the Justice Department.
2:19:57I mean, I'm not sure they are going to stop it all, but I think it's a lot of the fire that goes out of it, doesn't it, John?
2:20:04The Kennedy subcommittee is starting to investigate about what the hell is it all about.
2:20:08It's the handling of the re-annotment trust cases and the warrant over goods at that time.
2:20:19Do you agree with me on this?
2:20:21Yes, I do.
2:20:24I do very reluctantly, because I don't like to lose one of these, but I think when you come to the conclusions we did this morning that it was lost, then you've got to move fast.
2:20:35Well, actually, let's face it, you do not take a record of the damage you're losing.
2:20:41You lost better to lose.
2:20:46You thought it was terrible.
2:20:49unless it was the loss of the straws.
2:20:51And I personally shook it to occur because he thought it was an affront to him, which it wasn't.
2:20:56And it didn't make a damn bit of difference.
2:20:58Nobody thought straws was a crime.
2:21:00Huh?
2:21:02So now we lose money.
2:21:03The thing to do, though, is to get the goddamn thing out of the way now, before the Reichenstein, during the Vietnam War, before the convention, so at least we're thinking about it.
2:21:12He wasn't necessarily... People's memories is all the goddamn charges there, with great events coming in between them.
2:21:20That's the thing I wanted to say in there and didn't dare.
2:21:23By November, people will have forgotten what meat prices were in April.
2:21:26They'll be thinking about what meat prices are in November.
2:21:38We can't win it.
2:21:39We can't win it.
2:21:40What about, you want to talk to the Mitchell thing in the morning?
2:21:43I'd love to see me.
2:21:45I think maybe I'll try to go to Camp David and do that.
2:21:54You're clear.
2:21:56There's one question tomorrow that's too .
2:22:02Except it has to be at 4 o'clock.
2:22:06And I will have them in for the Jews and the neighbors.
2:22:11Now, what else is there?
2:22:13Now, this is Jews.
2:22:14No, I won't do it.
2:22:15That's your Jews.
2:22:18Here we stand.
2:22:20Oh, that's a great question.
2:22:22Of a CEA meeting, and Conley suggested it would be a good idea to have a program meeting with all three members of the CEA sitting in.
2:22:29Good.
2:22:31And we should do it at three tomorrow, not four.
2:22:36Three.
2:22:36Because you've got, what have we got?
2:22:40Four.
2:22:41That's something I'm going to have to do, I don't know.
2:22:43Whatever else we're going to do.
2:22:44Youth group.
2:22:44Yeah.
2:22:46What time do we leave?
2:22:47Five.
2:22:48Well, you better.
2:22:49This meeting is going to take more than an hour.
2:22:56Why don't you make it 2.30?
2:23:04I'll get all my work done and then I'll come back here tomorrow and get my clothes ready and have this meeting at 2.30 tomorrow.
2:23:12Is that fair enough?
2:23:18Evan, you're the other man.
2:23:20Go up the counter.
2:23:31That is it.
2:23:32It's awful when people don't really understand.
2:23:42It's horrible, sir.
2:23:44But nevertheless, we must not overestimate what people understand about things like IEDs and so forth.
2:23:54Unless it has the symbolism of the person who built it.
2:23:58That's the missing thing that they don't have here.
2:24:02I mean, again, God damn it, somebody ought to get up sometime and say,
2:24:07When some press guy asks a question, he says, let me ask, before you take that question, this is what I want to make sure.
2:24:15Can you take one person in this administration, one of the press, and charge it all personal, and recognize it?
2:24:24And you won't be able to.
2:24:29I'd like to ask all members of the press, would you please, to the same question, being a name like three years.
2:24:38Can we say that safely?
2:24:40Is there anybody we didn't have to kick out after three years?
2:24:44But really, was there anybody that did it?
2:24:47I can't think of anybody else.
2:24:48Let me give that a little thought, because that's very practical.
2:24:51That could be a Calvin line.
2:24:54I've played that line a little bit in terms of how you rung out the Catholic conflict of interest.
2:24:59The way you do it, you see, is if a press guy asks a question, what about the matter of the war of submission?
2:25:07It's not the other thing.
2:25:10All right, let's try to separate the thing out.
2:25:12You talk about the issue with the one-sided process.
2:25:14Talk about the personal integrity of the family.
2:25:18And to name one person in this administration, one person, might have been present, since he's been present, in which there hasn't been any evidence of any charged name, any charged group, person, or anything.
2:25:35I can't think about that.
2:25:37Would you check it a bit?
2:25:38Yeah, I sure will.
2:25:40We have a devastating thing on the PD providing.
2:25:42Somebody who needs a press or something can throw that right back against anyone.
2:25:48I asked all three members of the panel the same question.
2:25:52Because if you have, we'd like to know.
2:25:53I think our audience is trying to know what these charges are about.
2:25:57Are you talking about that?
2:25:58Or are you talking about the issue in which we can't argue about that letter for sure should not be in tolerance?
2:26:04But a lot of Democratic politicians are pressing the candidate charge.
2:26:09I'll tell you, we've sent every New Jersey politician of this decade to Jacksonville.
2:26:20They're all gone.
2:26:22He's just the last, I think.
2:26:41You asked about that California unemployment.
2:26:43I checked one of those figures.
2:26:47California Department of Human Resources Development figures.
2:26:52And they show that employment increased by 69,000 and is up 96,000 over last year.
2:27:00Number of unemployed decreased from 603 to 579,000.
2:27:07And the California officials say they're not at all worried about the figures because of the very big increase of unemployment, because of the number of unemployed decreased.
2:27:15And this is the fourth straight quarter in which unemployment has decreased.
2:27:19On a quarterly basis, unemployment was 7.4 in the second quarter of 1971, 7.0 in the third quarter, 6.4 in the fourth quarter, and 6.0 in the first quarter of 1972.
2:27:35And monthly dip?
2:27:36Governors, yeah.
2:27:37But it was a drop in the statistical figures.
2:27:39You have an enormous number of people.
2:27:43The labor market was selling jobs.
2:27:44I mean, because they have plus and plus, just as you've got increasing numbers.
2:27:49I think part of the problem is, well, meat prices are affected.
2:27:53You know, part of the problem is lives.
2:27:56And first, there's unemployment fluctuation.
2:27:58It's commonly expected.
2:28:00God is the end of the planet.
2:28:01So you've got five in the two, but not in the fourth.
2:28:05$400,000, or $4 million at most, never had a job together.
2:28:08Never had a job.
2:28:09And he said, that's what a lot of people think.
2:28:12It was a wealth of work.
2:28:14It's true, a lot of people in the market.
2:28:18But I'll tell you a little point here.
2:28:20The way it works, you know, if a plant worker loses his job, immediately he and his wife and his oldest boy get unregistered for jobs.
2:28:29So I've got to have, I don't know where it is from now, I've got to have the talking points for the Vietnam thing.
2:28:42I mean, I want to know what the hell became of it.
2:28:43You mean from this morning?
2:28:49They were supposed to hand out to the leaders this morning.
2:28:52Talking points on Vietnam.
2:28:54Henry did not hand them out at the end of the meeting.
2:28:56Thank you.
2:29:13According to Billy Graham, John Connolly made the greatest single defense of the benefits administration you've ever heard in the National Association of Broadcasters.
2:29:22He is a persuasive man.
2:29:26It's coming.
2:29:29How do you think it's going to go?
2:29:33Better.
2:29:33You had a nice little phrase, and it sounded smart.
2:29:38Did you see that?
2:29:39No.
2:29:39Oh, yeah, I did see that.
2:29:40I did see that.
2:29:41Yeah.
2:29:42Yeah.
2:29:42Yeah.
2:29:44I think he's being very careful about the way he's moving around.
2:29:52Well, he's a man, you know, of great dignity.
2:29:58He's a man that therefore has a certain mystery, which is good.
2:30:02He doesn't get it out of the way.
2:30:05He's nice.
2:30:06You know, you've got to have him.
2:30:11He's a Greek boy and he plays it like a king.
2:30:16So be it.
2:30:17He's still got a screw loose on the substance as far as I'm concerned.
2:30:20Oh, I bet him, yeah.
2:30:22He doesn't understand either foreign or domestic policy.
2:30:26You worry about the domestic policy.
2:30:29That, as I said, doesn't make any difference.
2:30:32Everybody's wrong about domestic policy.
2:30:35But the point on foreign policy is there can be devastated.
2:30:40He always comes up with, I mean, no question about his being, you know, patriotic, hardliners, but he, I know he's a breeder, but he just comes up with things that, what the hell was it he wrote this morning?
2:30:57Yeah, that kind of concerned me in there, because he asked questions, questions of fact, that he should have known the answers to as vice president.
2:31:05Well, Henry didn't need that.
2:31:07Henry is supposed to read... No, he's got his own guy.
2:31:10He's got an actual security liaison guy.
2:31:13And he's got that information available on a momentary basis.
2:31:19There was some question about... Let's see, how many...
2:31:23Airplanes did they have?
2:31:24Could they come down and hit us or something?
2:31:27Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:31:30How many airplanes did they have?
2:31:32It was such a ridiculous question.
2:31:34But I can hardly believe it.
2:31:36They have only 200 airplanes.
2:31:37We totally command the air.
2:31:40And for him, who sits on the National Security Council, to raise the question creates doubts in the other lines.
2:31:44That's his point.
2:31:45And of course we totally command the air.
2:31:48And he says, could they, and also, could they have enabled the military to come down?
2:31:51Could they have launched the plane?
2:31:54With American Spurge up there, nobody's, we command the sea and we command the air.
2:31:59We don't command a hell of a lot more, but we've got that.
2:32:02But the fact that he would ask you.
2:32:04He shouldn't ask the question now, even if he doesn't know.
2:32:07He should write it down and ask his man after me.
2:32:10Yeah.
2:32:14But, anyway, on, in fairness, though, he's, you know, one thing that's helped him look better
2:32:26to decline Muskie.
2:32:30Muskie and Agnew, of course, were competitors.
2:32:35And frankly, Agnew was more of a man than Muskie.
2:32:38He really is.
2:32:39I mean, talk all you want.
2:32:41I mean, here's Muskie with a press panning to do the right thing for him and the rest.
2:32:53or would you agree i did i'd say he's been handling himself very well
2:33:06Shall we leave the, uh, the quantity stack out, or are you, how do you, is that the way to handle it?
2:33:11We'll handle it with Mitchell, or should I get him in now?
2:33:13I'm ready any time, but maybe you ought to explore your ground and try the next sale.
2:33:20It has to be done.
2:33:22It has to be done.
2:33:23I'll tell him.
2:33:25But, uh...
2:33:29We just tell you, for doing that, you have to wait until next week.
2:33:33You can't do it until the hearings.
2:33:35For Christ's sake, do it now.
2:33:37What do you mean, next week?
2:33:39We voted to continue the hearings until next Thursday.
2:33:46Until you know they aren't going to stop next to each other, you don't know anything else.
2:33:51Well, you have to get the Irvings.
2:33:53You've got the Irving thing.
2:33:54I think, I think you, I think as long as you're triggered to do it early and get it done, then Irving and Byrd should be done.
2:34:01Yeah.
2:34:02And since Irving and Byrd have both dedicated this, I think Lindy should up and beat it to the punch and not wait until the Irvings drag it to Mr. Millett.
2:34:09If you're going to cut your losses, cut it when you've got an opportunity.
2:34:12There'd be a vote.
2:34:13and we'll lose the vote is this i just want to be sure that this second draft right here is that the draft hasn't been murdered
2:34:36They have to, who's, who has to see it all?
2:34:41Who has to see it all?
2:34:42Is the state trying to get it clear?
2:34:46Yeah, I just think it needs a half hour.
2:34:52No, but I mean, Henry's gone, you see.
2:34:54And if it's Henry he's waiting for, I just need to know so that I know whether to, how long to wait for it.
2:35:00But ask him if he wants to, Henry wants to look at it again.
2:35:04If he does, fine.
2:35:05I'll wait for it.
2:35:07If he doesn't, then somebody else can do it.
2:35:09I'll take it.
2:35:10I'm not worried.
2:35:11I don't care that much about the damn speech.
2:35:14I think we ought to do something.
2:35:16I think we ought to, I think we ought to do something.
2:35:18I think we ought to wait a week.
2:35:22If you want to do that, maybe you ought to just get the children to do it.
2:35:39Before you leave.
2:35:44Keep the recorder down.
2:35:47She's got a British accent.
2:35:49There's something screwy about the way she talks.
2:35:54You guys, she's married.
2:36:01She's been married before.
2:36:07I think she's a little nuts.
2:36:28I'm not leaving for the Vietnam War.
2:36:56I'm just blanking.
2:36:57He went through those 12 different times.
2:37:00We've got to get agreed on.
2:37:02And this is not the time.
2:37:05They're ready to talk.
2:37:07They don't come that different way.
2:37:08But he's going to be on the train for it.
2:37:23This judgment may be done this time.
2:37:31But at least we've got the right to pray.
2:37:57Rosa, get in.
2:38:57He is so passionate about it.
2:39:22They didn't even talk about it.
2:39:23They said, well, I think we ought to negotiate with them later this fall.
2:39:30I said, no, I'm just going to talk about that.
2:39:33I said, there ain't going to be no later this fall.
2:39:36He said, we could have four or five meetings and so forth.
2:39:40You ever talk to him about it?
2:39:41Yeah.
2:39:42He really thinks that.
2:39:43We're just going to have a long cycle of events.
2:39:46It's going to work.
2:39:47It's going to work.
2:39:48It's all over.
2:39:51Ten minutes until midnight.
2:39:56Well, as I said, this went well this morning.
2:39:58John, John, you did a good job.
2:40:01And frankly, it was three nights a day.
2:40:03I sat there, and Shelby was sitting there, and Simon was sitting there, and I thought of Richardson doing the lesson and the rest.
2:40:10And God damn it, they just aren't good enough.
2:40:13So you've got to put up your great man.
2:40:18And Henry, basically, was paid away in comparison to him because he was too long.
2:40:24But Henry at the time, Henry would waddle all over the place.
2:40:28That was his single problem.
2:40:30He educates Shredder himself.
2:40:31Shredder, he has to respond to the whole thing.

Nixon, Haldeman & Connally on Fishing Rights and Speechwriting Strategy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 12, 1972

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