Conversation 922-007

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Now am I interrupting your meeting?

No, sir.

Yeah, because I wanted to finish your, I know you didn't get a chance in your briefing meeting this morning.

No, I, uh, that was something that happened with the camera.

It was good.

But, uh, if you've got any legal issues, I'm sure, you know, I just thought I'd mention a few other things.

Why did you get wrong?

He's wrong.

It's got a lot of time.

That's right.

We ignored it a lot.

You had it.

Amazing.

We're on the car now.

We had a very good meeting.

We went through the whole thing.

It was strange, right?

Looking at it in the restaurant, it's a very cold way.

Very cold.

And I think we have a little more to discuss together.

But, uh... What I see happening here, I mean, it's green and all that, but, uh, we don't have time.

We're very... Now we're trying to get the whole broader picture of it.

You know, they would attack, but you could farm across it.

And you're...

Farmers.

Yes.

There's a whole way of doing business.

That's the effort and that's going to be the politicization of the issue to the end.

I don't really share some of the comments in the cabinet.

Over time.

Sure.

Oh, well, look, look.

All right.

Good.

Or you think it'd be better if you got together with the three of you to be ready?

I think it'd be better if we- Because I'm not- You've got to give them, you've got to take up your time.

All right.

And then we ought to come in and have a talk with the bench and read lots of other discussion on this.

Just so we know where we're going from this point on.

And then the next one.

All right.

Yeah, why don't we do that?

basic thing on the briefing and such, which I'm going to try to go on time today and just get it out of the way.

I was asked yesterday whether or not you asked John Ehrlichman to invite Matt Baird down.

It's not a point of guilt or criticism, you see.

Ehrlichman is getting a lot of criticism.

All his two meetings with Matt Byrne, so.

Yeah, two.

Now, John Irwin had the responsibility for getting me on, for checking on the list of outstanding people, judges, and others, and suggested for Ed to be on.

Matter of fact, the way it happened is he said, I'll make you get a burn-down, and I'll come here, and so he did.

I can answer the question by saying that you did not ask John that.

No, don't get off me, John.

I would simply say, no, I didn't tell him to have him down.

No, I did not ask him, but no, but say that the President gave John Berger, the President gave John Berger the responsibility.

for making recommendations to him with regard to who should be at the FBI and to check out those who had been prominently named.

And Bird was invited under those circumstances.

And whatever to do with the Ellsberg case.

Because his name should have been prominently mentioned.

And that is the fact.

I don't want to put it in a position where I say I did not ask John Irwin to get down.

I didn't.

What I meant is the way it came about, Irwin said, you know, this Burr would be a good man.

I've never met him.

Oh, Pliny's also.

Pliny's recommended John Irwin.

And, uh, he, uh,

He asked whether he could, uh, you could say that Ervin, that Ervin, uh, that John Ervin said that Byrne had been strongly recommended by a number of people, including, uh, that, that his name had been, including Attorney General Klein, to support the position.

And, uh, Ervin, before seeing what you just said, asked if it would be all right, and I gave approval, provided there's no discussion whatever with the current case.

Was he available?

We're not going to comment on that.

I mean, that was a matter that was discussed.

I don't know whether he was available or not.

I think he was, actually.

But let's put it on the basis, though, that earlier in the story,

Well, earlier it said to the President that he was going to go to St. Bernard because his name had been probably mentioned.

And it is in the lay-along.

And it's only very favorably mentioned by Attorney General Blaney, which he did.

That's true.

And he was informed of the visit.

He said that was fine provided.

He said it was.

And he said that he was informed of the visit.

said he had no objection provided there was no discussion of course in the current case the other question is do i blast even out of the water today my information is not due nothing

That thing I signed with John was a good contract.

So he says that he, as late as he said, as recent as Easter, he told me that there was no dean investigation.

Well, hell, we knew by then that that was his contention.

I'd say for the 20th.

We knew he was contending that.

That's not even relevant.

The point is for 10 months.

I think the main thing, indeed, the main thing that Simon did, which I guess we're just going to meet about a week from now on, was to leave in the condition that, well, his testimonial matters would depend upon whether or not the president were covered under the price tax.

That's sort of his, that he really, he's so dumb.

I don't know what you do about that.

No, that's right.

The question is, do I just begin to attach these things at Midlands?

No, you said, no, I'm not going to comment on that.

Gentlemen, we've covered that.

We stand on what we said.

We've covered that.

We stand on what we said.

I'm not going to comment on the individual.

There's going to be a lot of things coming up in the hearings, and I'm not going to comment on that.

On D, I would leave that alone, too.

Obviously, we have a lot of comments from 18 other people.

And I actually see that as a reason to comment.

But when and if we, if you will, blast this question, we've got to blast it in a different context.

The main thing that all three of us have got to understand is the command decision.

Peter, you have any doubts of this, or we must know, on the side of this man, the command decision to fight this through to the death?

I have no doubts.

That's not what you were discussing last night.

No, absolutely not.

That's not even an alternative.

That's what he said last night.

Am I new?

Am I new, frankly, if I, if I, frankly, was even caught red-handed in the water game?

Sweet, you can't backflip.

That's not how the whole world goes out of tune.

We were talking about precisely the opposite of that.

How do you fight the battle?

Honestly, why can't you imagine a budget that you've got to fight?

Absolutely.

What do you think, Brian?

Well, give it a thousand.

All the shit's going to fly here.

It's not going to get worse.

I mean, this idea that, well, we'll pass the brick bullshit.

It's going to get worse.

Slamming is going to come out.

Walrus metal will come out.

That'll be bad.

But we've got to think, too, that some good things on our side are probably going to come out, too.

I mean, don't assume it's all going to be bad.

All we're trying to do is get a battle plan.

That's right.

No thoughts in the minds of my two colleagues here that this is something that we've got to consider.

You know, sometimes we talk darkly and brotherly.

No, sir.

The greatest, you know.

No one even touched on that.

It's inconceivable.

What we're touching on, and what my point to you last night, Mr. Parsons, was, and you state, it's true, but you're not probably any shit on it, but is a calculated, cold assessment of the facts, and then develop a blabbering plan.

Yeah.

All for that, I'm ready for the battle plan, the fight, and so forth and so on.

We're gonna just fight.

That's the name of the game.

We're not doing this.

God damn it.

moving to the edge of that.

But I think he's moving to the edge of it, not to give the president so much as he's moving to the edge of it.

If you're Erlingman, then you're Holtman, isn't that your judgment?

But the guy, we've got to realize that the guy's capable of anything.

Based on that thing last night, he's capable of anything.

that man about to be over a tree.

All right.

He's standing up for him.

As a matter of fact, he's in better spirits and he's increasing himself from the beginning.

Now he's enthusiastic about this new guy he has.

I think he thinks he's going to get through.

I've got something here, my energy, I want to talk to you before you talk to me now.

What does it mean briefly before you're reading there?

How does the Walgreens Mountain stand with us and how does it come out today or where does it stand?

It's over there.

I didn't realize that

But it's there.

They were quite concerned about some differences between day after day.

And many of them.

So I said, you'll work all last night on it.

And Simon said,

I was not going to put it here today.

You know what they will not do.

And they're happy now.

According to Jim, he says that to get that point across, that it is legally a sound point.

But it made Walter feel bad, you see.

That's right.

He had classified, highly classified stuff that he put in a safety box to protect his ass.

are you going through dean's paper now

in a way

Well, all I can say about Dean's papers, they're there.

Dean is the loose cannon up there.

He's going to be running.

But as far as his papers are concerned, I can assure you, I can assure you about that.

The other thing is where it's made.

We're in great shape on this plane.

We've got a permit.

The CIA got it on the 24th and sent it back on the 28th.

Jim Sussinger found that last night.

He found the record.

Sent it back.

It was sent out to the Situation Room on the 24th.

was returned through the situation.

within that framework, did anything that could serve us.

It's hard to believe it, but you see what I mean?

Because then you could have a transition and an evolution into some monkey business that was going to be campaigned.

We've got to trace that out.

That's the most dangerous aspect of the whole thing.

and they're manageable and appropriate for the CIA to discuss.

Accepted.

Accepted that it's a question.

I said to go in and talk to him and so forth and so on.

And I'm trying to bring him in as far as he's concerned.

And the most careful person, he genuinely knows that while you convene the meeting, that the reasons for it

the CIA involved.

And to me, it wouldn't be so bad if they were in political sense, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah.

But he also, he said to me, he said, you know, you can see the president.

Why do you know who the president is?

They're very good because they, again,

Not to use any hearsay.

In fact, the rationale to do it, because in the long run, that didn't come out from the first part he did.

Greg, his reinforcement of Greg's testimony is not helpful.

Given his own conviction, I think, in his mind.

Well, Gray isn't going to say that I told him to cover it up.

No.

Gray's going to say the contrary.

I said, well, he hasn't said that.

Coming back to this, I don't believe that Houston did anything.

He didn't.

But I can't believe Houston could have done anything on a paper that was turned off.

What do you mean?

That basically, this came back here, and you believe that because the paper

But Houston was sort of the coordinator for this, at least the White House plug-in.

We know that they used a lot of stupid purple prose.

It doesn't mean that that's the way to be right.

And the question is, and this is what I've asked the Select Security Fund, the advocacy fund, and whether or not there was any follow-up action program

Under the man who was- And so far we have not.

Yeah, that is quite important that we don't get because that would be delusional.

You see, we have to assume that they're not as delusional as they were on those documents.

The fact that they were never implemented from our perspective here.

It's an example that you will never forget.

If he was part of any of the other issues,

Sure, we've been wrong, and we've been wrong, and we've been a violation, but God made me Him.

have been restrained by that.

That's what I say.

That's what we say.

That's what I say.

That's what we say.

No, we're in very good shape, but it would be more troublesome if there had been some exercise in that whole system.

Nothing great will happen, so we're going to have to fight it.

Right.

No, we're in that whole channel.

If it was all done the other way, through Krogh and that stuff, it's in very good shape, but it would be more troublesome if there had been some

We know the road isn't the part of the site, I can tell you that.

We don't know the part of this exercise and that whole system, that whole channel.

If it was all done the other way, through the road, then it's separate.

We know the road isn't the part of the site, I can tell you that.

We don't know the part of this.

Who the hell was involved?

Told them to have a meeting.

I asked them to have a meeting.

As part of my efforts to get it to the government.

Who the hell was involved?

And said it was not involved.

Get them the hell out.

And said it was not involved.

Get them the hell out.

Yeah, one guy that had these titties in the ring.

That was Hill.

He's been playing the usual Hill's game.

Get it.

Yeah.

approach to illegal activity.

You just don't sit there with your ass.

You guys are in the CIA.

You're the first person to approach for illegal activity.

You just don't.

You're under fire for it.

The director of the CIA and the committee loves it.

Here's Walters.

After the meeting, who gets the grass?

Look at the conversation.

Walters went on to say that they're in a meeting to suggest that they put these guys on the payroll, even while they're in jail.

He said, well, he said, well,

Here's Walters.

Come on, here's the champion.

After me, who gets thrown up at CIA for trying to keep them out of it, keep it in lane.

I know it was a tough one for you, but it's been a hard day for you.

By me, the suggestion they put these guys on the payroll, even while they're in jail.

Yeah.

You knew about it because the lawyers reported it to you.

Why is Yelkin here?

What did he say?

Well, he said, well, we've got gentlemen to do it.

Well, there's other people to do it.

I told them to keep the agency clean.

So aren't you seeing these gentlemen that kind of pressure?

Yeah, but that helps.

They're telling me that the NCI agents are looking bad.

I think what we've got to do is to come out here as the champion of the government.

Because the CIA .

We've got that a lot.

the plan occurred.

Everybody's

He used to stand for that he had nothing to do with it, and he told me so.

And I was relieved.

That's all there is to it.

He used to stand for that he had nothing to do with it, and he told me so.

And I was totally relieved.

That's all there is to it.

Totally without my knowledge.

And I think it was out of the knowledge of all of us.

And anything he did was totally without my knowledge.

Totally without my knowledge.

I think it was out of the knowledge of all of the two.

I don't know what the hell I don't know what the hell I don't know what the hell I don't know what the hell I don't know what the hell

That's not a problem.

Thank you for watching.

Thank you.

He's going to be breaking me.

So you see, he's going to be...

Thank you.

to do the nurse.

You know, that's what the criminal act is.

That's what the criminal act is.

I don't mind.

But the main con of a conversation that doesn't have it is something that you could discuss things in such broad...

But the main con of a conversation that doesn't have it is something that...

Thank you.

the agency needs.

We are totally wrong here.

We can't buy our strategies.

We can't buy our skills because we don't know them.

What could open up without them?

I have two strategies because we don't know them.

What could open up without them?

I talked about the CIA with these guys and everything else.

I mean, I know what we're talking about.

I don't know what the hell's going on.

I must say that I talked to him.

But I talked about the CIA with these guys and everything else.

You see, I know that with all, with bizarre, his ability to make a real cut.

If it's not predicated by a full realization of what he's got to come up with, I would just petrify him.

With all, with bizarre, his ability to make completely cut decisions.

Let me say, with regard to this, let me say this.

Without his looking at those records, I'd rather he not.

I'd really rather he not.

If it's not predicated by a full realization of what he's got to come up with, let me say this.

I'm just rectifying and making up a decision.

Let me say with regard to this, let me say this.

When all kids look at those records, and I'd rather he not, I'd really rather he not.

Now, by God, I just feel that wave.

I think we've got to move the line there.

Now, the conversation ain't in that room, though, guys.

Now, by God, I just feel that wave.

I think we've got to move the line there.

The assault that follows runs.

That's, that's, you know, you know, I know very well.

What you talk about, that's what I talk about.

very well served.

What you talk about, just like I talk, let all my people in God damn it know what we can have.

But, if it should happen, or if people in God damn it know what we can have, but, if it should happen, or if the issue, the final analysis begins, if the issue, the final analysis begins,

What is it?

I'm just thinking of that March 21st conversation with Dave and Serena.

He brought up all this goddamn thoughts.

I'm just thinking of that March 21st conversation with Dave and Serena.

He brought up all this goddamn black hat stuff.

I got very pretty about it.

Black hat stuff.

I got very pretty about it.

We might do it.

Of course we did.

But I was trying to find out what the hell the scores are, what the odds are.

We're failing.

I hope he doesn't need to see it.

If all of this conversation with me ever gets to the public record, if all of this conversation with me ever gets to the public record,

And he looks at it, and all it's going to do is drive him up the wall 100%.

Now, that's just the way I think we should do it.

I feel it.

You cannot have the ends one of the up, one of the down, one of the up, one of the down.

Maybe two of them, maybe one of them.

When it's really just down to the nut cutting point.

Maybe two of them, maybe one of them.

When it's really just down to the nut cutting point.

We can hold on that issue.

God damn thing.

I don't know.

I mean, on an individual basis, I mean...

case by case, case by case, by every inch of the way, by every inch of the way, yes, but do not, yes, but do not allow them to say, allow them to say, here is everything I have on Watergate, on every conversation I have with the president, the president is not on trial here.

Here is everything I have on Watergate, on every conversation I have with the president, the president is not on trial here.

This is, this is the angle.

This is the angle.

I don't want you to fight yourself.

the spread of the public record, it will destroy us.

What John wanted to say was he wanted to put on his on his conversation with me with regard to Walters.

No, no.

Thank you.

I don't want you to fight yourself if you don't believe me.

My point is this.

I'm just telling you that from a practical standpoint, it followed all of John Irving and Chuck Colson's ever-ending conversation, ever-ending conversation with the president about anti-political order being spread with the public record.

What John wanted to say was he wanted to put on his metcon on his conversation with me with regard to Walters.

No, no.

Thank you.

Save our ass.

We work and then we go.

No, they understand that.

They know exactly what that's about.

Right.

What about Mexican money?

Is this not...

to me.

face that you would understand.

Face the present.

And thus far, I think it's not as heavy.

We're ready for .

I know Colson .

And thus far, I think it's not as heavy.

It has not been on the line.

Maybe I could .

because if you read it all, if you read it all,

But you see, you have this name, concern,

Absolutely.

He wondered what the hell else was out there.

But this has been a very helpful area.

This way, this way.

We'll be right back.

Strong.

Sufficiently.

Strong.

To collapse.

In the final.

In the final houses appear up against the.

That's the end of the night.

Hold up the papers.

Twelve houses appear up against the.

Thank you for being here.

How it might be that a gentleman would recite and try to protect himself because he feels his family hurt.

Right.

Who can take him?

Recite and try to protect himself.

No, I don't want to make any sense.

service.

But even that is better.

Even that is better.

But even that is better.

Even that is better.

Why would he do it?

So he can select a room and protect himself from a couple of key issues.

If he can select a room and protect himself from a couple of key issues.

If he can turn over the laptop.

It's better than if he turns over the laptop.

He may.

Do it.

That's what I'm saying.

They would have to be prepared for it.

And if you don't... And if you don't...

If he doesn't, if he doesn't, it would have to be on a selective basis.

It would have to be on a selective basis to protect himself, and that's less bad.

To protect himself, and that's less bad.

What Bob incidentally says is it bizarre to know what he and I know.

with everything that comes in.

Because God did not take need.

Resignation like this.

You know what I mean?

He is.

He has not taught.

Well, looking at our old car, old and cocky, well, basically, that's me being called.

Maybe we should be cold and cocky, but I didn't call.

Maybe we should throw it with Tom.

Tom.

Never.

Considering these never, I don't mind doing it.

Considering these don't mind.

Because it doesn't solve anything and it loses everything.

I finished studying and working on the .

You know, we always have to look at the worst situation.

that we're talking about.

at least that's what I'm saying.

a memorandum of conversation with the president.

They are, they, look, there is a booktaker there, and it's made for the booktaker there, and it's for the president and his files, as part of the presidential files.

And only I, and I, I'm the president and his files, as part of the presidential files.

And only I, and I, I, therefore, am not going to compromise those files.

And even if they wanted to,

compromise those files.

And even if they wanted to