Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Well, you know, don't you think this went very well, I think, on the morning news last night, on the radio this morning, and in the press?

I don't quite know what you expected out of this.

No.

It was funny.

No?

I don't know what I expected.

I didn't expect the judges to do anything but have a post-license.

They put it on the front page.

I'm talking about the overall coverage was excellent.

The TV last night did.

just had a tremendous impact.

Yes, sir.

And the follow-up from last night was very good.

Well, I mean, the report from last night, when the comments were made about me, when we heard the bombs falling on Christmas, we went to pack our bags and sustained applause.

It was on TV, on the radio.

You know, that's what they...

Focus snooze on that.

This is Cliff.

All right.

All out to Florida.

Yes, sir.

Don't breathe.

Don't breathe, too.

Captain Lillard, the, uh...

Sorry, Christian.

1230, that's enough for today.

I'm reading for you, sir.

Frank, I gave you something money I don't know you're going to.

they decision to sell it off and ice it.

That's right.

Okay.

We're going to issue today, not in any extensive way, but the low-key way, the blast of Santa and the register.

Are you going to run the story again?

No, no.

When they issued that, we said we'll put out a complete rundown on the California...

purchase, so we're going to do that today.

We've talked to Aflanoff about it.

Everyone's on board.

It's a good segue.

Call for retraction from the liberty group.

So that's, we'll keep doing that today.

But Jerry's going to just routinely handle the thing today.

I go routine, but I say this is typical, but you've got to get into the crack every time you can.

This is typical.

This is a kind of mass innuendo.

Oh, yeah, we are.

It's a press.

It's engaging.

These press don't know that some of them are engaging.

You know what I mean?

This mass is starting to innuendo and so forth and so on.

Well, um...

This is a great thing.

That's why I just say that if you spend any time out in California instead.

What about it?

A month is good.

We'll be there, Ron, about three weeks.

Two and a half weeks the first time.

And then a full damn month in August.

A whole goddamn month while we're trying to be out of here.

Couldn't be out of here anyway.

Damn place.

Nothing out of the earth.

We weren't here.

He's riding around.

Get the hell out of here.

Or we can

The reaction of the press I talked to, though, was very good, amongst the honest ones.

And I think the reports so indicate that these guys can get moved, too, and they were moved by that last night.

Had to be.

They were moved by it, didn't you?

I know.

I mean, guys like Folsom.

Even though the guys who are moderates and moderates and moderates or something.

Reasonable guys.

No.

get a feel of that and, uh, uh, hold them.

Let's say, hold really tight now, let's say.

Well, you know, really, they are, they are rightly pissed off about the water being

Well, that's what we're dealing with.

I don't think they feel everyone was crooked.

They, uh... We're going through the period that we expected to go through.

sure quite well in the way we expected it to.

Yesterday didn't really happen so at all.

But that yesterday being a great chance, I'm convinced more than ever that we can't even wait until Sunday to make the decision.

But I wouldn't mind if that wasn't the case.

I'm convinced of that.

It's just not the time to go out there.

We want to begin over the weekend to prepare.

I mean, just the staff.

We'll just work out, you know, physicians and patients and that type of thing.

But always a time to strike around and address the people who say go out right now, you know, and so forth and so on.

Well, what reaction do you make to the...

I think it's not the time to say it.

The Gallup poll was from about 45.

Congress and so forth.

Usually, well, we've been almost that low before.

We were about 48 in Cambodia.

But when was that taken last week?

No, it was taken about a week and a half ago.

The Gallup poll.

Oh.

It was taken before the issuance of the statement, of course.

It was taken during a period of intense

You understand that you'll never be affected by foals, or you can't be?

No, of course not.

You never have.

Right.

If you would have been affected by foals during the last four weeks... Well, did he send her bombing?

Well...

I know he went down, way down there.

Sure.

Well, we didn't go that hole.

And the other hole, uh... You know, does it...

doesn't reflect when people respond so much directly on the president that even though the question is aimed at the president, I think many of the responses went to the environment and the issue.

We can't be misled by that.

Even though the question is asked, do you think the president's doing a good job, and it comes out 45%, people- How often do they have ?

I think 19 or something.

I don't know.

But it was quite a lot of years ago.

But my view is that that does not reflect directly and specifically on the feeling toward the person or what can be rallied.

And what's your situation now, your feeling about that?

David was coming the last time that he spotted him.

David was starting to do a good job.

He was cutting up all this Silverstein or whatever his name was.

Yeah, Finsterwald.

Finsterwald.

God, that son of a gun.

That was a guy.

Oh, yeah, that's...

There was a conspiracy to murder Kennedy and all that shit.

He must be a real loo-loo.

Oh, he's coming off that way, too.

McCord's being rapidly distracted.

And the Senate committee is coming off like they want him to be credited.

Well, the Senate committee is trying to make him work.

McCord.

They are.

And it's very obvious to people.

Well, that's what he's trying to do.

Well, for the Middle East people, sure, because he was their star witness.

I don't think.

If I was, I don't think they could do a different job.

I don't think they could.

All of that can be made irresponsible as hell.

They're showmen.

And they're into something over their heads.

And they're going to swing because of it.

That's my prediction.

Well, they actually can say that.

And they won't defend themselves.

They're bigs.

They're on their big witnesses.

But even then, goddammit, I think Hall will do well before that committee.

Yes, he will.

I think Hurley will do well before that committee.

They're honest men.

I think, uh, I told him to go out for it, because, I mean, he'll sit there, and I'll pay all the sponsors.

If they want something, that's the issue.

Because, I mean, shit knows he's a shitload of money.

I mean, I forgot what it was all about, but it's the destruction of justice.

Colson, I told him to go out for it, because I, I mean, he, people don't know him, because he'll be damned and aggressive, and I'm telling him I already had a train, and so forth and so on.

Well, he comes home, it's great.

And we've got a lot of mind-numbing people who just are crying when they're not here, confused.

Like I said, there are problems that are there.

They're basically the oddballs out there that they're questioning, you know.

There's never going to be a cause.

The problems you've always got.

We didn't know those things were there.

We didn't know about that whole thing.

It's not a dead thing.

I know Walter didn't attend to the goddamn thing because he was so confused.

We wanted him to look at it because he was afraid.

But God knows, right?

What Dean offered him was unbelievable.

I have to tell you, I haven't convinced him.

The problem we've got in person is that I did see him.

Well, not a number of times.

We had 12 and so on.

From the 28th to the 31st.

12th, 31st of March.

But the problem is that fortunately half of those times it wasn't.

Three-fourths of those times it was really about him.

Except that 3rd and 3rd.

It was his goddamn problem.

I think now that he's shown that he's capable.

What is the latest on what is the demand for him?

What kind of crimes are these people doing?

Why don't they decide?

Well, the Justice Department called for a 30-day delay on that decision.

That's the Dean sort of slipped into the background now for the time being.

What's he doing?

I don't know.

What do you think he's thinking?

I was going to prove a man's mind like that.

He should probably be involved.

He was trusted so much by so many.

I think he has no bitterness at all toward you.

I don't think he will attempt to move in a way that his lawyers won't.

Well, in terms of what he's thinking, I think he's full of great bitterness toward one man.

Right.

He hasn't been very hopeful.

or the present covered up testimonial matters and all that sort of crap.

Well, he dealt with that very effectively as a way to destroy it.

The statement, you feel, was still a good thing.

Yes, I do.

Where would we be if we didn't have that?

I mean, we have something to work from.

We have something to bridge from.

It was not the solution that you've told us that.

I can recommend it.

It lays out a whole lot of things.

And you can say, well, I mentioned that.

I've covered that.

I'm not going to go beyond that.

What do you think?

The water's not all that good for us.

I can't believe both of you.

Her dean went in and out and asked him to put him on payroll.

They have at least been in and out of the dean.

And her lawyer said, I'll serve you because I have a presence in the room.

So, uh, there's the block.

The time.

I wonder if really there is a time.

I think Congress is going to feel a little bit concerned about this.

The press, this utterly destroying the presidency, you know, really.

No, there is politics.

Oh, absolutely.

I would say you'd be getting that from some of your people out there in the press.

Well, it's started, and it has been there, but I don't particularly even care what the press in this room think.

It's the timing again, and they're going to move too far.

I've always felt that.

And then when they move too far, look at the reaction yesterday.

Do you expect that to happen?

only this audience.

When they move too far and step across the line in which they're moving to, that's the time to move down.

After we return to Iceland, maybe the first move against that, we'll have to wait and see, would be some forum where you address and begin to give people the fixed signs.

It is pure politics.

It's starting to come off that way.

It has not solidified itself yet because the great bulk of the American people are watching it.

And you see everyone around here watches it.

In fact, in Washington, I mean, the country is not watching it.

You were on QC in a very positive, aggressive way.

You led the news shows last night.

You led them all with your comments.

About secrecy.

Now people react to that, respond to that.

They saw others reacting and responding to that music.

So that weapon is there.

That tool is there.

It's just when do we use it and when do we move?

And the statement has given us a good platform to move from.

Well, we just see...

We're going to have fairly good weather for it.

It's going to be in the 80s and not much rain.

We'll have a chance to get a couple of dead days out there.

I guess we'll look back on this episode some day.

Great embarrassment.

Some sugar and everything.

Embarrassment.

Because they...

You know, we play rock at times.

We've always been kind of, you know what I mean?

They're just being like wild, I mean, mad dogs.

It's just unbelievable rock.

Pretty bad.

Mixed, but certain of them are setting their bounds.

And the others are getting caught up in it, and have gotten caught up in it here over the last few, after the last month.

And I think they will work back on curing all of them with the flashlight.

And the other place, I think the East Urban Committee are going to, in history, if they keep on the long way they are going now, become the worst form

Inquisition.

Inquisition and assassination of character of individuals ever, ever undertaken by man anywhere in time.

It is appalling.

Really?

It's appalling.

They have no rules, they don't.

You know, you could walk up there, a guy could walk up there on that thing, look at all kind of courage in the first step.

He could walk up there and make an accusation or mention the person's name.

And that person whose name is mentioned

are referred to, has no opportunity for cross-examination.

Has no opportunity for .

Yeah, when I did the histories, they're all squealing, cross-examination, cross-examination.

Oh, shit.

This committee is not going to hear any of that stuff.

None.

From the libertarians.

Right.

OK.

Nixon & Ziegler on Watergate scandal and Ervin Committee

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 25, 1973

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