Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 344 › Conversation 344-022

Nixon & Ziegler on John D. Lavelle and Arms control

Thursday, June 22, 1972 · 12:56 PM–1:08 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation344-022 on Tape 344 (tape position 02:51:35–03:00:12)StartThursday, June 22, 1972 at 12:56 PMEndThursday, June 22, 1972 at 1:08 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 344-022 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler discuss media messaging strategies regarding controversial administration issues, specifically the General John D. Lavelle case and defense policy. Nixon instructs Ziegler to distance the White House from the details of the Lavelle court-martial by deferring to the Department of Defense's position. Furthermore, the President outlines a rhetorical strategy for arms control, emphasizing that ongoing U.S. defense programs were essential to securing agreements with the Soviet Union and should be framed as a necessary precursor to future disarmament progress.

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Position in tape: 02:51:35 – 03:00:12

part B, 51:23

344a.mp3
344b.mp3
344c.mp3

NARA Description

On June 22, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:56 pm to 1:08 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 344-022 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 344-22

Date: June 22, 1972
Time: 12:56-1:08 pm
Location: Old Executive Office Building

The President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.

[See Conversation No. 25-123]

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello, Tyron.
I just got, uh, that's, uh, an armchair.
It'll come up pretty quick, so it does.
Do you think I should get into Lavelle then?
My own view is that if I do, I'm sort of close to getting into Lavelle.
I guess my thought at the beginning was to say that the foreign policy is not going to matter.
I guess I'll say that on the matter that it hasn't layered a position on it.
I mean, we have, they have, and they have said there's not going to be a court-martial, right?
Well, of course there should not be.
Yeah, I'd just say the Department of Defense is, the Department of the Secretary of Defense is, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has, has,
I'm forwarding stuff.
I'm not going to get into the business of saying this can't even go and all that crap.
It's what we live for.
We just want to stay out of that.
Yeah.
The Department of Defense is active.
They take a position on that.
I support that.
Yeah.
It really is so much important.
Now, the other thing was this.
I was thinking...
I don't know what else to say.
I don't know what else to say.
Well, I'm here for you to say that.
But I was concerned because they recovered that.
And I just spoke to him about what he said.
And he said, of course, I don't know what it's all about.
I don't know what he said.
And at this time of that period, I said, I don't know what I'm going to do.
I don't know what I'm going to do.
I don't know what I'm going to do.
You can do that sometimes.
If you have a single standard, you can always leave with a trough of steel.
Steel papers from the White House.
There's a lot of steel papers from the government.
What do you think about that?
Because, you know, there's nothing but everything else involved in that.
There's theft and the NPR kind of broke into that research into the market.
There I am.
Prince of all time.
Yeah, yeah.
But you don't want me to get into that.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm wrong when I say this, and as Safer said, I read it when I sang it, when I said there's no white house in Baltimore.
There's no white house in Baltimore.
That's what Safer said.
That's what Safer said.
There's no white house in Baltimore.
I heard him put it that way.
I heard him say it.
Then that doesn't build up quite as much.
The president states no white house in Baltimore.
That's what Safer said.
There's no white house in Baltimore.
That's what Safer said.
There's no white house in Baltimore.
I was wondering if this black-and-white layer is something that can be adjusted?
I was going to say this, and I would say this, and I would say this, and I would say this, and I would say this, and I would say this, and I would say this, and I would say this,
Now, what we have to realize is that this is the first step.
To take the next step, which can be a much bigger step, a permanent comprehensive limitation on office as well.
It is indispensable that the United States have ongoing programs in order to give any incentive to the Soviet Union to negotiate, because the impression of it is very clear that they were going to have ongoing programs.
I can tell you, Donald, we wouldn't have a GM agreement.
We wouldn't have a defense agreement.
We wouldn't have any agreement with all of Moscow had we not had ongoing programs.
You see my point?
It's a hell of a problem for the Soviet Union.
In other words,
How do you say it?
How do you, how do you respond to that?
You've got to give that answer.
Probably, probably, uh, leave it out at this point.
There's a fear that you'll, that you'll leave my faith as a witch, as a player.
That wasn't to say I'll address that question.
I didn't address that question.
I'll, I'll address that question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The main thing that we should take on, you see, not the big number, the way Larry said it, even more of a big number, I believe, because this is the first time.
In order to make the next giant step, the big step, Mr. President, we begin it off forward.
You know what I said earlier.
That's what the ball was going to be.
I haven't seen that in years.
You said it earlier.
I would just say that as the president is that it would be ironic and it would be tragic if those, if there were senators who would support the arts control is limited and then vote against the
defense funding, which would enable us to make the next step of a permanent agreement.
In other words, that's what we want, see?
And that's what, and to put the V right on it, they will destroy the changes.
Those who got not supported, added an ongoing burden to deal with them, will destroy the changes for the permanent limitation on all acts of violence.

Also recorded on June 22, 1972

  • 025-121 12:14 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Constance M. Stuart talked on the telephone from 12:14 pm to 12:15 pm.
  • 344-019 12:14 PM · 35 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Constance M. Stuart met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:14 pm to 12:15 pm.
  • 025-122 12:15 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:15 pm and 12:56 pm.
  • 344-020 12:15 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:15 pm and 12:56 pm.
  • 344-021 12:15 PM · 19 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:15 pm and 12:56 pm.
  • 025-123 12:56 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 12:56 pm to 1:08 pm.
  • 344-023 1:08 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:08 pm and 1:35 pm.
  • 344-024 1:35 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:35 pm to 1:45 pm.

All 38 conversations from June 22, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 344-022, June 22, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/344-022 (accessed November 14, 2026).