Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 575 › Conversation 575-005

Nixon, Stafford & Houston on Supreme Court and Hugo Black

Friday, September 17, 1971 · 4:34 PM–4:41 PM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Stafford, Robert T.; Stafford, Helen C.; Houston, Neil; Timmons, William E.; Colson, Charles W.Conversation575-005 on Tape 575 (tape position 01:32:59–01:39:32)StartFriday, September 17, 1971 at 4:34 PMEndFriday, September 17, 1971 at 4:41 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 575-005 ↗

President Nixon met with Representative Robert T. Stafford, his wife Helen, and members of his staff to discuss political matters and engage in a photo opportunity with the press. During the session, the President formally announced the resignation of Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black. The participants also engaged in informal conversation regarding the President’s past experience in the House of Representatives and exchanged commemorative presidential gifts.

Download MP3 (part 1) · 168.1 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 112.7 MB

This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 01:32:59 into the tape and ends around 01:39:32.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
1:33:15You know what?
1:33:15We've got a little control over that now.
1:35:34Thank you.
1:35:35Thank you.
1:35:35Thank you very much.
1:35:35Thank you.
1:35:36Thank you.
1:35:36Thank you.
1:35:36Thank you.
1:35:36Thank you.
1:35:36Thank you.
1:36:05Let's see, you'll need another... You have a pair of covers?
1:36:07You have now.
1:36:07Bob, you have...
1:36:07There's another pair.
1:36:08Why don't you lay down there?
1:36:08And, uh... Oh, bring me one of the, you know, these, uh...
1:36:09Here, you get the two.
1:36:10It's not expensive, but it's nice.
1:36:10And, uh... Let's see.
1:36:11Bob, if you're going to come back...
1:36:34How many, uh, how many girls are in the office in Michigan?
1:37:11Coming to me is Arsene, speaking in Spanish.
1:38:17So it's really, really great.

On September 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Robert T. Stafford, Helen C. Stafford, Neil Houston, William E. Timmons, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:34 pm to 4:41 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 575-005 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 575-5

Date: September 17, 1971
Time: 4:34 pm - 4:41 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Robert T. Stafford, Mrs. Helen C. Stafford, Neil Houston, William E.
Timmons, and Charles W. Colson.

     Greetings

     Colson

     Stafford’s hometown

     Press photographs

Members of the press entered at an unknown time after 4:34 pm.

     Supreme Court
          -Forthcoming announcement
               -Resignation
                    -Hugo Black
                    -Hospital

     [Photographs]

Members of the press left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

     Presidential gifts
          -Cuff links
          -Stafford's secretaries
          -Golf balls
          -Paperweight

     Congress
         -House of Representatives
              -The President’s experience
         -Senator
              -Activities
              -Beliefs
                    -Causes
              -Vermont

                        -Weight of representation in Senate
                             -New York
                             -Pennsylvania
                             -California
                                   -William F. Knowland
                                   -Hiram Johnson

**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 17s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

**********************************************************************

      Controversy

      Regards

      Presidential gifts

      Stafford
            -Qualifications
            -Staff
                  -Employment
                        -Governor's term
            -Mrs. Stafford

Stafford, et al. left at 4:41 pm.
  • 076-001 2:30 PM — President Richard M. Nixon and bipartisan Congressional leaders, including John G. Tower, Wallace F. Bennett, William Proxmire, Allen J. Ellender, Milton R. Young, John J. Sparkman, Norris Cotton, Harrison A. Williams, Jr., Jacob K. Javits, Herman E. Talmadge, Jack R. Miller, Robert C. Byrd, Hugh Scott, Michael J. ("Mike") Mansfield, Wright Patman, George H. Mahon, Frank T. Bow, William L. Springer, Albert H. Quie, William R. Poage, Page Belcher, [Thomas] Hale Boggs, Gerald R. Ford, Carl B. Albert, George P. Shultz, Herbert Stein, Charls E. Walker, Clark MacGregor, William E. Timmons, and John B. Connally [?], met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 2:30 pm and 4:24 pm.
  • 575-003 2:32 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Manolo Sanchez, Stephen B. Bull, and George P. Shultz met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:32 pm and 2:37 pm.
  • 076-002 4:24 PM — unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 4:24 pm and 4:26 pm.
  • 575-004 4:24 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, Alexander P. Butterfield, White House operator, Warren E. Burger, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:24 pm to 4:33 pm.
  • 009-063 4:28 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Warren E. Burger talked on the telephone from 4:28 pm to 4:32 pm.
  • 009-064 4:32 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:32 pm and 7:48 pm.
  • 575-006 4:41 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:41 pm and 4:43 pm.
  • 575-007 4:43 PM · 1 hr 39 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, John D. Ehrlichman, Manolo Sanchez, Henry A. Kissinger, Alexander P. Butterfield, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Eugene V. Risher met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:43 pm to 6:24 pm.

Conversation 575-005, September 17, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/575-005 (accessed October 12, 2026).