Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on SALT and US-USSR relations

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One more dance, you'll be here today.

Good dance.

That is beautiful.

No, you don't get compulsive.

You notice how I spanked him on it, the fence thing.

I handled it for eight years.

Mike got in the stuff of that man's field, and I said, we've got to have the fence and don't let it down.

We've really got to call a case to settle it.

Dad, I'm talking about this opium thing.

The only point in which you put yourself into a slightly too tight a box by this meeting, but it isn't, it's fine.

No, where you said about Solve that we had agreed to settle it this year, we hadn't agreed to settle it this year.

Concentrate on the topics this year, because frankly, I think we ought to stretch it out into the summit meeting.

I don't want that.

We'll think over it.

No, all I would say, no, the fact is we've not agreed to settle it this year.

We've agreed to concentrate on it this year.

But that's a minor point.

I don't know how these wires are, but it's... We have to make a period.

We're going to try something.

But to give you an example of how well you carried the press off, Zeigler and Scali were bugging me before your press conference that I should give a background this afternoon.

I said, wait for the presidency, whether there's anything left to say.

They've both come in now and said that they don't think a background is necessary.

I agree with them.

I knew that to begin with.

I just wanted to keep it loose in case there was something.

No, no, no.

Be foolish.

Be foolish and you've answered any question that could possibly come up and you've done it better than anyone could.

This Soviet Assad ship, they've put out an announcement now with just changing a few tiny little things in there.

It doesn't make it worse.

It's just that they can never do anything right.

I mean, the Chinese have never deviated by a comma.

Actually, this time, where we say the chances of world peace, they put in the chances of universal peace.

It doesn't make any difference.

It's just when you have an agreement with the universities.

And where we have said in their exchanges during the last year,

They put in during an exchange of opinions, which gives the impression that there was some specific meeting.

Doesn't, it's really totally material.

It's just that they're not a meticulous government.

But I think it's, um, and to get to see her again.

My God, that's what pleases me.

It leaves, it leaves on the wire at 11.58.

How?

It's not for an embassy.

One of the embassies, to put it that way.

Two minutes before the announcement, it says, the White House is expected to announce shortly the president will schedule a summit meeting with the Soviet Union, according to diplomatic sources here.

That's the embassy that I found.

That was two minutes before your time.

And I'm sure they thought they were waiting.

But CBS was still on that.

They were on that.

And they interrupted their program.

Doug Edwards came on, made the announcement, said the president himself had personally announced it in the White House press room.

They did it on film, didn't they?

Oh, they did it live.

You see, but it was Doug Edwards live, not the president.

You see, we were not on top of the log.

It was just film.

That's what I meant.

This is at noon, right at noon, that W.R. was on with them.

And then at 12.30, they had a little five-minute newscast, and Dan Rather was on at that point with a little more detail.

That's terrific.

The other networks still haven't had it on.

They didn't have it on for a long time.

Good.

What I was trying to say is that, Henry,

in terms of the press thing you know i did this one quite differently i didn't push myself as hard as they're carrying of course we had one subject but i but i was prepared and all the rest but uh how did you do it no no mr president we have to be quite good answers were perfect if if we could have written them you know there'll be enough questions

Beautifully done and in fact you sort of reached for one or two places in the Vietnam answers to make your point which was good, which was highly desirable.

I mean you elaborated

Well, you elaborated on that and you reaffirmed your September 16th.

I thought it was a... That's the one you were reaching for.

The two conditions of... and letting them take care of the living.

Excellent.

I think we may.

They must be sorely disappointed at the result of the Vietnamese elections.

Not that they give a damn about the pre-election, but they think it didn't unravel, there haven't been street disorders, the United States hasn't generated a coup, and

And you have engaged in a massive demonstration of his strength.

Actually, between you and me, it may turn out that he was right.

Sure.

He has proved that he...

He has proved that the Communists, even with maximum dissidence in the non-Communist ranks, could not prevent him to run a rigged election.

That's the sign of the bank.

It hurt us domestically.

It doesn't bother him in Vietnam.

They don't expect an unrigged election.

I've got that cable off to Reagan, informing him that he ought to have that in.

That Ellender is a bloody fool.

You know, that film that the president reviews.

Yeah, it's a two-hour film.

Is he sitting at home throughout?

Yeah.

What can you do with it?

Yeah.

He sat there right next to me explaining it to me.

I had my whole staff sit through it.

I thought you were going through your own time.

That I would rather like to say.

He even had the soundtrack going with it.

Really?

Yeah.

I'd like to act if anything to be with Harriman now.

— 3 min 8 s with no transcribed speech —

And, you know, every time we, you know, every time we raise this issue, there are so many people who are asking about everything else.

I really, some part of it up there has something about the

Unfortunately, I just fed people with my thoughts.

Incredibly, when they're all quartered, there was only one question.

On that one, I told them, consider what's next in the file.

I told them right at the beginning.

I said to the secretary, I'll take questions on any subject, right?

You had 18 questions, of which two were on the Supreme Court.

And one was on that place too.

The rest were on the side of Vietnam as well.

And one thing we should do, I think you can do it, is to compare 68 with 72 as this thing developed.

Because people had forgotten that in 68 Washington was burning, there was the Tet Offensive.

American troops were still going into Vietnam every month.

The number was still increasing.

And the Russians went into Czechoslovakia.

The Chinese weren't talking to us.

All of this happened in 68.

And if one compares that with where we'll be in 72, unless the whole thing starts under our name.

It has to be racist of the spirit of the Chinese.

I don't know why that occurs.

The Czechs won't.

It can't happen.

Because of the Russian government.

No, his main concern is China.

We couldn't have one without the other.

The Russian trip will help us believe.

You know, I called to bring in love tonight and said, I'm not talking to you, Senator, yet.

You've picked up a nickel and lost $1,000 worth of cookies, and I'm not out about the trash.

So he called up this morning a personal message from Gromyko saying this was not all the right.

They will keep their secrets.

They are eager to maintain the confidential channel to the White House.

Well, it's just they'll cut our throats.

as easily as anything, but it shows how eager they are.

The point that I make is this, and I know you're emphasizing this, and I know you get here early, and I understand it.

I mean, Charles and Carlton and everybody, every two-thirds of the White House works in domestic stuff.

It's terribly important.

And inevitably, though,

Now, it's important to get done.

It isn't any value to us as a positive issue.

It could be a very positive.

And the economy, sir, is the peak of it.

The main thing is to make it a non-economic world.

That's right.

It is purely defensive.

It's, you won't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't.

That's what people want to hear from the president.

They like to hear it all the time.

Just a little.

They want to hear about the peace issue.

And I think that you can build this up, this idea that peace will come a lot more than you're good at.

Don't you think so, Mayor?

Absolutely.

Well, I don't know whether...

I think it's our big issue whether it can be built more, I don't know.

Well, it can be, and, you know, it builds as it happens, partly, too.

George said, I don't know if you've ever heard of George Scali and the rest, and they're absolutely right.

George is a very good client.

He says, well, he said, well, everybody now, there's no, there's no time, and he's, that's the stuff he wants to throw, and that's the stuff he wants to throw.

People forget, they forget.

— 1 min 26 s with no transcribed speech —

Because we ought to come out of these other meetings with return visits arranged.

In 73?

Yeah.

The way we are trying to get all of these agendas set up is so that your performance comes in 73, their performance comes in 72.

So that they can... We should have a return visit.

But not only the return visit, Mr. President, because that they can take with anybody, but the delivery of our part of the bargain should come in 73.

I saw this as a very shrewd account in this meeting, where he said, well, this is likely to be sort of...

Yes, that's right.

But that is in fact how we've kept the Middle East from blowing up, otherwise it would have blown long term.

I'm having dinner with Sabrina on Thursday night before I go off.

And with regard to...

Oh, I've been goosing them along all along.

Well, here is how I did it, Mr. President.

In July, Joe and I asked me, will there be a Russian visit?

I said yes, but you know how the Russians are.

They're trying to hold us up.

We don't accept conditions, which I also thought.

But as soon as some of the requirements are met, like an assault agreement or an accidental war agreement or Berlin agreement, then we'll go.

Then in August, when we have the accidental war agreement signed and the Berlin agreement signed,

I said, already, I said, we'll announce these two agreements soon, and I expect that there will be a Russian invitation now.

Then, two weeks later, I told them, we have reliable advance information that a Russian invitation is coming.

Then after you saw Gromyko, I told them the invitation has now come and we are considering it.

No, in no case.

And on Saturday, I gave them the advance text of the announcement.

I said, here's the announcement.

You're the first country we are notifying.

And special discretion is necessary.

And of course, they're terrific.

They didn't blow it.

Saturday morning.

So they, they've been, they've been conditioned every two weeks I've been warning them of some additional little step.

But they, in that process too, they still come back with further talks to your side.

No problem.

That's why we couldn't put it off.

It's, from every point of view, it's perfect now.

Coming back to the old technique, though, I wonder if, in terms of the press conference thing, if it doesn't serve a useful purpose.

I did this with a, I did a lot with Perry.

You see, I worked hard.

You know what I mean?

I read the book.

I'll have a certain thing.

I'll make my notes.

I'll talk to you.

I'll talk to you all some of the rest of it.

So Perry has done a hundred questions.

He's got ten.

Eighteen.

But, uh,

I kind of think it's probably worth building.

What do you think?

You see, the point is that we need to keep these guys, keep the bureaucracy in line.

That's the main idea.

Mr. President, on September, your press conference on September 16th kept Vietnam from collapsing.

It's as simple as that.

It was heading towards a coup and you turned it around.

By keeping it from disintegrating, you've given us a new chance of negotiating.

That is what

That is why the Vietnamese were so tough to me on September 13th.

They saw these things sliding into chaos, and why save us by making an agreement?

Now, in a way, they're worse off than they were before.

The Jew is stronger now.

And with the Chinese new announcement, with the Russian announcement, the Jew is stronger than ever.

And, uh,

i think we have the chance again with that new proposal we gave to them

Oh, I thought your last two conferences... Well, in foreign policy, Mr. President, you ought to assume that you're well prepared, because you really...

You are really, all you need there is a view of the morning.

Yeah, you need some of the new facts.

Scott says he needs to see you on the later line.

Ten minutes.

If Kennedy, who told me there's a column, somebody told me there's a column, Rosewood told me about the column in the Daily News, the Chicago Daily News.

Kennedy had done this, and what if Mason had done the bale of pigs, the lard, the tobacco, Berlin and a few other things?

We could get a hold of Schultz if I have to go.

I don't want to get into a big battle with all of this goddamn economics.

There's nothing I can do about it.

I don't need to hold his hand on him.

This one, right?

Keep coming down.

Go ahead.

For ten minutes.

Okay, good.

One thing you did very well and that it's important for us all to stay away from is to avoid any impression that we and the Russians have a special relationship and because if the Chinese think we and they are playing for a condominium I mean you specifically disavowed it and that was very good

So I don't suppose you'll make any comments this afternoon in the Congress, but you have to be... Oh, no, no, no.

I don't know.

You know, the hell of it is we've done everything you said you would do.

We've linked them together.

We've got our preconditions met.

We've held out trade.

We've held out trade until there was political progress.

And I'm going to tell, now that we've made the announcement, I'm going to tell Stans that he can go.

I'm going to tell Dupree tomorrow.

Good.

I'll tell Dupree then on Thursday night that he can, that he's going.

And that he'll have a wife, Charlie.

That's good.

So we get to know them.

But the only thing is if these guys ever put together everything I'm telling them,

I've told the Chinese that the only ones who have an interest in continuing the war in Southeast Asia are the Russians.

Because they want to dominate Southeast Asia via Hanoi.

I've told the Russians.

I think we got, I think I got that pretty good question.

Where I said we pulled the thing forward, but we'll have to look at the situation.

Okay.

So it's...

The Labor people have said they will serve on the pay board.

It is a statement that says it's all their way as we expected, but that's their statement.

Well, my judgment is the thing for us to do is say, well, I have drafted your statement.

That is a provocative statement, but nevertheless, it basically says they agree.

Now, Meany called me, and he read that you had said you would have a statement this afternoon.

And

His basic message was, uh, I'd say that we, uh, make clear that, uh,

Right.

No, I think that's... Yeah.

And working for the goal of full employment, which so and so has said, that's important.

We believe that the prompt action on the tax proposals in the Senate is essential.

Just to add that as a paragraph.

So that we are clearly at odds on that note.

And without saying that we disagree with them, we just say,

I've got to be allowed to go in, George, or otherwise it would appear, I think, by silence that we don't object to what he said.

I think that's good to be wrong, too.

That's a good thing to expect out of them, isn't it, George?

I think they have, uh...

He says, we're going on the statement.

I noticed the president says that he stands on what Connolly said.

I said, that's right, we think they're the same.

And he said, well, we're going on the statement with the president's initials on it.

I said, that's fine.

But we could have an endless argument back and forth.

Just say that I consider, I would say to that, George, that I consider this a summary of what Tom and others have said.

Right.

It's an active summary of what we've said.

Fair enough.

Right.

What would you think of the idea of your picking up the phone and calling me and telling him,

that you welcomed his participation on the board, and you were issuing a statement to that effect.

Well, I just, I was, John and I were talking about this at lunch when this came in, and we started to draft, you know, John Ehrlichman, Connelly's still in Texas, and I haven't talked to him about this.

I don't think it's necessary, but if we want,

His mood right now, despite the statement in his telephone conversation with me, his mood was hoping the President would, uh, would say, all right, let's cooperate.

Uh, Mr. Meany, please.

George Meany.

I was trying to write something like, I also reaffirmed my, um, the importance of the, uh, uh,

Our goal is to go full employment.

I believe that the...

by the Senate, action by the Senate, on my tax proposals, on my tax proposals, will, uh, let me get that to be an animated job.

All right.

I guess I'll say it.

I gotta go down.

And, uh, they never expect somebody to be there, and they expect you to be there.

I'm sure this is going to be...

It's a good man.

Easy.

I want to tell you, I just got your — your — your — your statement, and I greatly appreciate your willingness to go about this thing.

And you saw what Mr. Baker — what you sent over.

That is my understanding as to what we — what the policy is.

I think that — and when I — when I told the press, I told the press about Colin.

I read the comment in character, and then this piece of paper is, and we've also checked it with Connelly, and he totally agrees with it too.

So you see, we've got Connelly, as I understand it, more precise.

Well, I looked it over, and as you noticed, I had an issue with it.

You've got a copy of it, I think.

But I did want you to know that Connelly also has seen it and agrees that that's what he meant to say.

That's fair, huh?

Right.

Look, the main thing is to make progress, and three and a half's a damn good number.

Right.

Yeah.

And I hope, I will put out the statement, and say I welcome the participation of my neighbor, Sarah, and bring it up with some questions.

I'm going to, the only thing that we do have some agreement on is on the TAC proposal, but I, of course, have to, if you can imagine, push for those.

Yeah.

Well,

Sure, that's fine, but we do understand that if everything works, which it might, and small jobs.

Okay.

I have, I also, to confirm my concern, I'm trying to expand that I'm paying both my contacts and I'm sending out my tax proposals, which will create one and a half million jobs.

Half of it is in the war, I think constantly in the war.

Right doctor, right there.

Oh, I was wondering about your business calls.

They've been making them, and I haven't had a feedback yet.

I haven't been making them, but Commerce Department, Peter Flanagan, and the labor people have been doing it.

And we have been circulating across the visiting council.

Rum Seltzer from Indianapolis, I got on the phone, and he's making a speech right now.

Peter has called Arthur.

I talked to Arthur.

Well, there's no point in operation.

That's right.

I think what has been achieved here, from our point of view, is that here are these gigantic increases coming up.

And labor has accepted a measure of responsibility for them, and for doing something about getting them down.

Pretend that is a coup.

You do a background on this today with the press.

I think it's extremely important.

All right.

I will try to steer it away from this argument about who won.

The thing is, I just go out and say that the important thing in this gentleman

There's a question, do you want to just say the country won?

Why don't you just say that, the country won?

Because without labor's cooperation, this program is not working.

Now labor is assuming its responsibility to try to hold down these women increases, and we believe that this is a very good program.

I think that's something along that line.

Very, very briefly, I think maybe a do-to-do then, Georgie, would be helpful.

In other words, so that they don't, I can do it right off the record,

Where did I get the height?

And then I'll go out and do it right now.

I think fast.

I'll be able to direct it.

You could go right out.

Actually, we're about to leave for uptown.

That's right.

You know, it's an interesting thing.

I'm sure she realized.

I mean, she's a rather tightrope, like I said, in the chapter.

This China-Russia thing, the most significant thing that has happened in the modern world, the United States, I don't know if you know, I'm scared to see what you're talking about, a good relationship with Bolivia or his dad, what the hell they were supposed to make.

except the Bolivian Shad, with the Russians and Chinese, it's indispensable, or you're going to have a very dangerous war.

And this is an enormous, it's an enormous achievement, even the very fact we're going to be here.

Well, I think if they had been in the Chinese and all the rest of the country, they wouldn't know how to do it, because they all went there hand in hand.

Well, they meant to talk, but with no special, their whole purpose, whereas it seems to me what, at least as I would read this announcement, what it means is, given your past statements, I say this without knowing much about it, that there must have been enough substantive progress by people who have been thrashing around in the underbrush to justify a meeting at the summit.

You've always said that as your, that's when a summit meeting can do some good, not...

At the end of their life, that's the whole point.

That's what I'm going to say in the end.

There is a lot of progress.

You know what I want to do?

You want me to have one of the girls take it?

The Canadians worked very hard against this, and they never got it, never got labor to lift a finger in all of their efforts to do something about this problem.

I think I have a statement with regard to the response.

And it occurred to me, and it occurred to him,

I could go on, but I want George to read one of the little, on the record.

And I was thinking, I might go off and just read this page.

I go off and just read this page, and I'll just say, well, we were having this meeting at this point.

Well, I think it's...

Well, I leave a space of time when people are speculating about things.

So, what should we say?

So, let's take two o'clock.

Let me speak for two.

They've gone to lunch.

Also, they've got to have a lot of writing to do.

All right, we'll go to two o'clock.

Good luck.

Just thank you.

What are you going to tell them?

I may not tell them I'm coming.

No, I won't say you're coming.

I'll say come back at 2 because we have a statement on the... Yeah.

Let them go.

Yes, sir.

Let them go.

Let them film George.

He's on the record.

I want him to be on the record.

Good to watch.

That means good idea.

He's going to let it end on the same.

The significance of this is in their participation.

And you can find out the Canadian experience.

and he's going to say how the British are going to deal with it.

I'd start right out.

Gentlemen, before I make any contagious questions, let me say there's going to be a lot of questions.

Who won?

And just let me say the country won, because basically the President's feeling

The President's feeling, the U.S. President's feeling, it's our feeling, I say it's our feeling, is that based on what has happened in other countries, that without organized labor cooperation, a program of wage and prices training will not work.

And this is a, this we consider a very significant

Would you also say that Secretary Collins, who's in Texas, signed the way out against us to be there since June?

Right.

Then go to your questions on that.

I'm guessing you're just popping that right out there.

Yeah.

Call John and tell him what we're doing.

Yeah.

Very good idea.

All right.

If you say you want the country one, I'll tell you what, that's as damn good as it gets.

That's better than you say it is.

Okay, if you want to follow up, come on.

Hey Gary, we don't need it, uh, just meet here at 2 o'clock.

I'm coming here.

Okay, take care.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on SALT and US-USSR relations

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Also recorded on October 12, 1971

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Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on SALT and US-USSR relations

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on October 12, 1971

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