Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 15 › Conversation 015-036
Nixon phone call with Flanigan on Ambassadorships and Japan
Thursday, November 18, 1971 · 3:36 PM–3:42 PM ET · White House Telephone ·6 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Peter Flanigan discuss potential candidates for ambassadorial appointments to Japan and NATO, specifically evaluating figures like Fredrick M. Eaton, Nat Samuels, and David M. Kennedy. The President emphasizes his preference for Kennedy for the NATO post while tasking Flanigan with vetting other options, including Eaton, with Henry Kissinger. Additionally, Nixon directs Flanigan to mobilize influential contacts to pressure Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur F. Burns regarding his management of the money supply.
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Yeah.
Mr. Flanagan.
Yeah.
Yes, sir.
You do any good with Renchardt?
Renchardt said no, I'm afraid.
He's got a year and a half to go or a year plus to go.
I've got an idea.
Thayer?
No good with him?
No good with Thayer either, Mr. President.
Ah, fine.
Who's your other idea?
I've got a few other ideas.
Flanagan?
No, thank you.
Yeah, all right.
As long as you still want me around here, I think I like it.
Well, I prefer you around here, but I could sure use you in Tokyo.
I've got George Schultz sitting here, and he doesn't want it either.
Oh, George doesn't want it either.
He's got a lousy job, but he doesn't want to go to Japan.
How about Nat Samuels?
He's quitting.
He knows the business.
He also would be good at NATO.
You know, he lived in Brussels for a long while.
Fine.
Talk to...
I like him very much.
Why don't you talk to Henry about that and see what his feeling is.
Would you do that?
Certainly.
Talk to Henry to see if he could...
I think, frankly, he would be...
We're taking one pass, incidentally, at Kennedy again on NATO.
All right.
If we can get him, I think that's the best.
Right.
You know, because he knows all the moves.
Do you think?
Well, Samuels, as you know, is bright as can be.
Very bright.
I think he's a little frustrated because... Oh, he's got a hell of a job over there with the State Department.
Right.
Talk to Henry about it, will you?
I will.
And we'll see.
May I try a couple of others on you?
Yeah.
Did you know Fred Eaton when you were in New York, head of Sherman and Sterling?
Oh, sure.
In 66, he was the disarmament commission.
Anything you could get him to do would be good, but I don't think he'll ever do anything.
I called him today, and I said, how hard are you working?
And he said, well, he said, I'm still working hard, but I've got it organized, and I'd be interested in talking to you.
Which one did you mention to him?
I didn't mention either because I hadn't talked about it.
Well, Eaton is a prestigious figure.
Right.
We considered him for Secretary of State, you know.
Did you?
Oh, yes, yes.
He was very, very high up.
Well, one of the problems with Eaton, I would have thought, is that
When he was in that disarmament job, the Democrats in the Hill took a swipe at him on some stock holdings, and he went to Humphrey, and Humphrey went to bat for him.
So in the 68 campaign, he supported Humphrey.
But he is an outspoken supporter of, he's a longtime Republican.
He's outspoken supporter of the administration and told me today what a great job he thought you had been doing.
Well, now there's another one that you could kick around with, Henry.
Now, Eaton could do either one.
I think, let me say, the first choice for, I really feel the first choice for NATO would be Kennedy.
I think you can see why, because he has to work so closely with everybody.
Kennedy would just do an excellent job there.
I could keep him in the cabinet that way and everything, and it's just fine.
And he could also sort of advise on the economic things.
But Eaton would be very good in Japan, very good, I would think.
I will.
And he's, as I say, a hell of a big man.
Yes, he is.
And, you know, he's kind of cutting down.
He's 66 or 67.
Lawyer.
He's reducing his activities up.
Yeah.
All right.
I think it's...
it sounds more probably more impressive than samuel's actually on that score okay one one more truck another name yeah this one's less impressive but uh maybe more available he's having trouble up there and yeah in pan am as maybe dwight told you i heard that he's going to come in to see me next week i guess you're right yeah and and uh when would you put him in nato
I think I wouldn't mind him for NATO.
As I understand it, you would remember better than I.
He was Foreign Affairs Advisor to the Secretary of Defense and then a Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense.
But he's been active in both areas.
He would be a possibility, yeah.
The last one for Japan that I can think of at the moment is Reid Hunt.
You know, he's the head of your financial structures area.
He's in the financial world in a way.
He was the head of Crown Zeller back.
He's a Pacific Coast
Fellow, and certainly prestigious, whether he do it or not, I have no idea.
Yeah.
Well, you've got some good names there.
Well, I would start with the Eaton one, and as I said, Samuels too, but run it by and chat a little with Henry.
I will do that.
Eaton sounds, I mean, just thinking of big men for the job, everybody would recognize him as a hell of a big man, and I don't care whether he's supported Humphrey or not.
I think he's a heck of a fellow.
Okay.
And I will talk to Henry and then act accordingly.
No, just keep on it.
I mean, you keep running it.
I think it's a good one.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
Oh, one other thing.
Arthur wrote me a letter after his two trips to New York and said he didn't find a soul up there who thought that he wasn't doing exactly the right thing on a money supply thing.
Now, I just can't emphasize too strongly, Pete, that you've got to get your friends, our friends, and so forth, to raise holy hell with him about that.
Now, can you do that?
Yes, sir.
In fact, I know he overstated the case.
Well, he didn't put it quite that way.
Because Bunny and those fellows got up and were whacking away at him, but then Gabe and others got up and defended him.
That's right.
I know that's what happened, but, you know, Arthur, here's what he wants to hear, but I want him to get the heat from people that he will respect.
What about Al Gordon?
He'll do it, and Gus Levy will do it.
We'll get Al Gordon.
You get a hold of Al, will you?
I sure will.
Tell him that we just need to get him off his ass and tell Gus Levy that we need to do it.
What I mean is, don't get me in the middle of it, but you put him up to it, will you?
I will do it.
Every friend we've got up there, you got any others that are like that?
Sure.
That Arthur would, you know.
Sure.
Okay.
I'll get them.
Yeah.
All right.
NARA Description
On November 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Peter M. Flanigan talked on the telephone from 3:36 pm to 3:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-036 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 15-36
Date: November 18, 1971
Time: 3:36 pm - 3:42 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with the White House operator.
Peter M. Flanigan
The President talked with Flanigan.
[See also Conversation No. 294-22B]
Ambassadorship appointments
-Japan
-William S. Renchard
-Walter N. Thayer
-Flanigan
-Tokyo
-George P. Shultz
-Nathan Samuels
-North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
-Samuels
-Brussels, Belgium
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Conversation With Flanigan
-David M. Kennedy
-State Department
-Fredrick M. Eaton
-Shearman and Sterling position
-Secretary of State position
-Disarmament position
-Hubert H. Humphrey support
-Kennedy
-Japan
-Eaton
-Najeeb E. Halaby
-Pan American Airways
-Former government positions
-Reed O. Hunt
-Eaton
-Samuels
-Humphrey
-Kissinger
Arthur F. Burns
-Letter to the President
-Money supply
-Bernard J. (“Bunny”) Lasker
-Gabriel Hauge
-Albert H. Gordon
-Gustave L. LevyAlso recorded on November 18, 1971
- 015-034 2:48 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 2:48 pm to 2:52 pm.
- 294-021 2:48 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:48 pm to 2:52 pm.
- 015-035 2:56 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:56 pm and 3:36 pm.
- 294-022 2:56 PM · 1 hr 36 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:56 pm to 4:50 pm.
- 015-037 3:42 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:42 pm and 3:47 pm.
- 015-038 3:47 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 3:47 pm to 3:51 pm.
- 015-039 3:51 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:51 pm and 4:17 pm.
- 015-040 4:17 PM · 7 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 4:17 pm to 4:24 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 015-036, November 18, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-036 (accessed September 18, 2026).