Nixon, Shultz & Sanchez on National Economy and Welfare Reform

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Oh, fine.

Come right in.

Come right in, George.

Hello?

We'll have, uh...

Uh, how about a Coke?

Something cold for him?

Okay.

Well, you didn't get along with all of your partners.

I heard you had a good meeting with John Connery.

Yes, I did.

I thought I did.

I agree.

It seemed that we were right on the same wavelength.

We had some words together that I've just not discussed or anything with anybody, and I just wanted to turn it over to him.

I agree with John.

Right.

The, uh, you know, the bad dog here in Kansas.

John is now probably going to crawl up and come through the roof of the camera.

Is there anything, um, going in the direction of this?

No, it's okay.

No, I didn't mean it as well.

Take me to Ruben.

You're on the same course.

We're on the same course.

We're on our conversation.

When he speaks, I don't have to react to it.

I don't have to react to it.

I keep wondering if these people have a position.

Well, there's people...

They want to go for the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold, the gold.

How is that going to affect the future of the probability?

What if we understand that it's going to do something like that?

I hear it's probably going to go to the house.

Right.

You know, I must say, I expected the Ogilvie to go.

Isn't it interesting to hold Rockefeller and Reagan in the polls?

He told me, he said, I don't know.

He said, if you might have a hand for it, it's here.

He said, it's just open-ended.

It's just putting on the top.

More money for welfare without any reform.

He says, I'm not for that.

He says, that's what the federal government ought to do.

A lot of people are opposed to it for another reason.

He knows that it's censorship.

Correct.

And it's open.

But I...

As it turned out, however, he was a Welsh on this deal.

Do you understand what happened?

Over the 12 minutes, about half an hour ago, Joe Longstead was asked to confirm his understanding of which person he went out and made a speech about on the Senate floor.

Namely, that this deal included a retroactive payment by the Senate government for fiscal relief.

Let me ask you a little bit.

All of this is contingent on several things.

One, first we've got to get the amendment.

That chapter was sent tonight.

But we indicated we will not oppose it.

We will support it on a very basic level.

That's what I'm saying.

For that reason, I don't think that's over.

It's not going to be good in the budget.

God, the irresponsibility there, the irresponsibility of the person with all those taxes.

Terrible thing.

That's why I'm so very about a gold deal.

What are they going to do to that?

Unless there should be some very... You raised that one, John.

Yeah, I think that's right.

I agree.

I agree with what you said.

Good job.

He may be able to make a connection, I don't know.

I don't know.

After all, they came in with Kevin, who was a separate youth club for that part of the position.

And part of the thing, I mean, the person who was in the hat still, you know, goes through and kind of connects with me, but we didn't know each other.

And everything was being done well, roughly, and everybody had to spend the best fee possible.

Well, when I said never, he will help some, but he also will play a part in what this is all about.

And I just believe that it's true.

I'm going to do a little down here.

I'm not going to go over it at all, because, not because of the crap that we're doing, but because we need to do it.

We need to do it.

We have to do it.

We were supposed to finish the day, but I forgot.

I guess it's been a little too long.

It's about the end of the week, so I'm going to stand my guard up and wait for me to come for each of us.

We have to be fast.

There's a chance of being ready when we come back.

We're hoping for a burst of sun that will never end.

I don't know if they can get it out there better.

Of course, this is a miserable, miserable, miserable Congress, isn't it?

I remember all that.

I don't know what more we could do, have done.

I believe I have them all the time.

You know, we're the Democratic Secretary of the Treasury and everything else, and here they are.

Well, let me say this.

I am not going to place this over with you.

I think we found approximately $50 million for it anyway.

You know, we went down the O.S.A.

and our guys did a very good job.

All right.

We're still going to give them money.

Yes, we've gone through that.

We're going to give them that insurance.

I would say that this thing is very much contingent on what's going to happen in the Senate.

and the Congress that we can't, you understand, we can't guarantee what's going to happen.

But will we support the July 1 retroactive?

That's what he wants to know.

I don't know where John is.

I don't know.

You're right.

He tried to do somewhat the same thing on the price of gold.

The house wasn't responsible.

Of course, you know, I've always said this, George.

.

The material on the aircraft, the eye of contention, all of them, John May brought you up to that line.

He said, you talk to the Lord, and he's just going to give you an idea.

You go ahead and have a look.

Anyway, when he's working on the features for it, the tech is in his care with, you know, the policies and everything.

And, you know, I think just as a table of members, that's probably what's going to happen.

Right now, there's a lot of work going on.

And so I'm, you know, right at that moment, you know, I've got to take the speed and the speed.

The executive council met with that bill, and they proposed a resolution to the bill.

And it was a good decision.

And I can't believe the president of the board didn't move on the prayer.

I've never seen anything like this.

God won.

And that was made on the board.

So at least for a while I believed that what we did was maintain contact with the shooter.

And the shooter is going to be in cooperation with all of the other players, and all of the local actors, to see what the impact is on the shooter.

So yeah, the shooter led to some of the action, so it's sure to come back some day.

And I'm probably going to play with him for the rest of it.

That's a plus on the negative side.

What is your opinion as to what I should respond?

Not on the blistering part, but what about the business development?

I think I just have got to say, if you agree,

They just make a real high-level, I don't know how they want something, but on this point in time, a real high-level thing, they have not done that.

They must.

They must not walk out.

They must cooperate.

They can't have it all their way.

And that's that.

What Meany said was the trees and the bedding.

Tomorrow, if you get the word on the cops that there's a silver price in there, I didn't even laugh.

The reason for laughing is it'll be announced tomorrow morning.

I have to hear it.

If you ask me, Steve.

Steve's going to have two chances.

Steve's going to have just as one chance.

I was expecting it to be zero, but that's good.

It's very good.

This is the low end of it, Steve.

In the last 12 months we've had an increase of 3.8%.

That is the lowest 12 month percentage since February 1968.

So, we're happy to hope that the guy got older in the freeze and they would help out.

So I think that by all the evidence the freeze has worked and the crisis happened along the track.

As a matter of fact, you can put rather than 12 months in terms of the .

It was two tenths last month.

One month before, three tenths.

All we're here to say is that it's a breeze.

I always believe in astro.

Well, what I'm going to do, George, I will, I'm going to praise them for their strong national defense, their support of our fight against the Vietnam War, and, you know, I was, well, I was a man who achieved what I had to make some hard decisions.

They supported me, and I appreciate that.

I don't know about the dignity of the war, but I think that's a good thing to be proud of.

I heard about it.

It's a good movie, I thought, and it's also a conversation.

We better get some people down here because the SDS is over and I think the blacks are going to come down.

It's not going to happen.

I imagine the president being out of the track from today.

So he said all of this, and it's only a voice like that.

It's like there's one thing the president has to be shared, and that's the cookie left is against him.

He's tickled to death.

I think he's tickled to death.

We're coming.

The old man is Officer Johnson, 1967.

That's the last time I met him.

I don't know who he is.

I met him last time.

Maybe once.

Well, look, I had never had any doubts, George, about doing it.

Unless they walked off the pavement.

Then I didn't think we could go in and be in a position of kissing on the tail.

See, that's my point.

As long as they stayed on the dark side.

I just felt, I don't know, I didn't smile.

I just went right in there.

Picked the chin up.

And it would have been true.

I don't know.

I just felt it.

I hear a bell.

I hear it.

Oh, wow.

I'm safe.

I personally want just as much spend as you can.

I don't want the occurrence.

Right.

The rate of management is just a matter of where do you count on the day that you get the money spent on a new period instead of July 1 and so on.

And it's amazing how much you can change the appearance of the budget by sitting around that way and there are a lot of tricks.

We've basically got it all set up.

How about both of the vents and the other vent side?

We can bring down the 73 number, and we'll sure have to bring it down by any time.

I need to really bring myself to calculate how much going there is actually going to do.

But we have revenue share out of the budget, and I think we can get a good, respectable budget.

Revenue share goes beyond a family suit.

So that doesn't do very much, so that doesn't pass into the problem.

And then we have to keep the outline, in fact, of the initiative down, which is kind of what our intention is.

And that's about it with the details about the budget, but wait until we sort of call it out, and then bring an overall picture and major things that we think

All the parts that we had hanging over the machine.

Yeah, so with that, we can spin off to the side as far as the budget is concerned.

Unless we should go for a little more.

Okay.

Yeah, well, uh, we're not bored to think.

Well, I just don't think that, uh, that anybody would believe that anything like that would get passed prior to July 1st and after the impact of the crisis.

So, therefore, it would not be credible.

I think that it's a very good thing that John Lee worked out, which, and it meets some issues, but it would be very good to have an answer to that.

Well,

What it really is, George, is a kind of a half-assed substitute for revolution.

But it really isn't half-assed in a way.

It attacks in a different way.

And your point has always appealed to me.

We ought to have that in the tax system.

And we ought to begin, frankly, replacing the life and an awful lot of the income taxed up with that.

I just simply don't understand.

Well, look what they do.

The thing about that...

where the present tax debate shows why he's not having a good time.

Listen, I'll preface that with some jackass proposal that isn't long for both of us.

Others have gotten fucked.

They're serious and talking about anything.

Yeah.

And it's very fascinating to see that.

It's just incredible.

Yeah.

We've got to be in a position, and we've crossed it out, yeah, for some of those years, and I just ask what we're gradually doing.

What is it, what is it you're thinking of adding to that?

Well, I thought yesterday I could add about 7 million.

More?

Well, we'll be expanding there anyway, very initially.

and then bring an overall picture and major things that we think we need to focus on.

And that's what we're going to do.

And that's how we're going to finish it.

Of course, we have to hang over this for the shooting part of it.

Yeah, go ahead with that.

Yeah, so with that, we can spin off to the side as far as the budget is concerned, because of the fees.

I thought it was a sort of a rush item.

Unless we should go through with it.

A little more.

Okay.

Yeah, all right.

And I wouldn't think, well, I just don't think that anybody would believe that anything like that would get passed.

Well.

What it really is, George, is a kind of a half-assed substitute for revolution, isn't it?

It is, yeah.

But it really isn't half-assed in a way.

It attacks in a different way, and your point is always the deal with me.

We ought to have that in the tax system, and we ought to begin, frankly, replacing life and an awful lot of the income taxed up with that.

I just simply understand that.

Well, look what they do.

The thing about them...

where the present tax debate shows why you've got to have a different system.

I'll preface that with some jackass proposal, or even a long proposal that others have got to butt in there.

Seriously, is that what you're talking about?

Yeah.

And I'm very proud of what you've done.

It's incredible.

Thank you.

We've got to be in a position and we've cussed it out again for the second few years, and I just had to regret doing it.

What is it, what is your opinion of that?

Well, I thought yesterday I could have about seven days.

More?

Well, we'll be expecting there anyway.

Variations, that's the point.

We've got to not be in a position every time.

I took the liberty of calling down David and suggesting that I heard him coming to work about it.

He said he was about to go and have a car and take me back and forth, but he didn't have one.

And I said, you know, you're going to do it.

And he said, I'm coming to you.

Peggy told you?

Yes, I told you.

What did he say, Bill?

He said, of course you shouldn't go like this.

You should not drive a car like this.

But I'm sure they're going to appreciate that.

I bet they have.

before you go on to that do you have any more thoughts or do you have any more thoughts or do you have any more thoughts or do you have any more thoughts

Don't we have virtually an impossible situation to make any change if you prove, if you put somebody else into chairman now?

I don't think science, science would accept that.

We are blessed.

He could accept somebody like that, but I guess he doesn't know who he is now.

He's a very funny man.

He'll stand up for everyone.

He stands up for himself.

You know, you said once that you thought we could get a scholar on there in a better form.

Well, yeah.

The intellectual quality is important, and Stein has got it.

I think my judgment of Stein is that, in a way, judgment of Kraken is that this is a sharper guy.

Kraken has virtually all the knowledge.

No, I agree with Stein.

This is a square.

That is good.

I think we need a council where somebody can specialize in what's called micro-economics with price.

We tried it once.

But there are a number of others, and I'm going to call it an act.

If you think that Stein would be your chosen chairman,

I think in this instance, you will have to go for somebody who is not Jewish.

We're loaded.

I mean, I have no problem.

I don't care if they're all Jews or if they're Slavs.

But if you have Bernstein here, and Schell here, and, you know, you see, what people said to that, what people said to that, what people said to that, but on the other hand,

Well, I thought that Carl was back in the early 1950s, and I thought,

He worked very well with everybody around him.

He was great at it.

Yeah, we've been on a call with him.

And he did this, he over-accepted it.

We were talking about it, and he said, well, he decided when I arrived,

He told me, he said, you know, the thing is that he didn't know whether it was a coincidence or not.

He lost his sight and he was left behind.

He was on the right, he was on the floor, and he was left behind.

I don't know if that's what I'm going to do.

But, in case of the paperwork, I'll do the best I can.

My guess is that the buyer will be out on strike.

for a year to do a lot of the reparations and things like that, and just, you know, the fact that it's been a long time since we've done anything like this, you know, preventing ourselves from coming in there.

Actually, we waited for this to go into effect in the back of the presidency.

I'm seeing why the public members of government are happy with this, because

Yep.

That question will be asked by the American people, too.

Not unraveling.

Well, you're only unraveling before.

That's right.

However, well, it were me.

The other thing is that I don't figure out a way out.

What, for example, would have been good to do?

About that, I really don't know.

There's a lot of them that would take their members out on strike in order to get the right corrective payment.

You know what I'm saying?

That's exactly what I would call it.

They would be careful to say, instead of using federal law for them, that since the money was not paid,

That did sabotage the contract.

So they have no contract.

Therefore, the whole situation is up in the mail, and the bargaining is quite difficult.

Even though the government stopped it.

I think that in sort of a technical sense, labor is in a bad spot, because they're sort of saying that you can't have any way to fight the coal system, and in fact, I think that's the way it was going to be done before.

Everyone needs to know that we should let the Congress go ahead and vote if that's what they're dying to do, and be done with it.

We're going to let the Congress go ahead and vote if that's what they're dying to do.

Yeah, well, they will, they will, uh, prevent your activity.

So that'll be that, that'll be brought up.

And the paperwork will help you rule on that issue.

Well, fine, that's not quite as important.

We've been delayed.

Like, what's the point?

We've changed that around.

So we can go ahead and, you know, we can go ahead and, you know,

As a matter of fact, when I look at this figure, this number, I think about half of these creatures have nothing to do with the priest.

I hope so.

I hope there was an interesting piece in the World Trade Center yesterday morning.

The fact that purchasing agents haven't been visually included in the inventory and that there's a basic price increase after the freeze is generally something that I would consider a question of what a shadow is and that people don't expect the price increase because the market hasn't always been the way it's not going to look after it.

That was, I think, kind of the effect and the freeze has jolted it.

uh, kind of into place at a different level, uh, created the consciousness of the crisis and the resistance to the crisis.

And it, uh, sort of coolly conjures itself with this, uh, machine when it, you know, it fights for a little while, and then, uh, we can, uh, get out, get out as soon as possible, get out before the election is possible.

Right.

You know, a man has very great conceit, Jordan.

He hears only those things that he...

wants to hear or put it in another way he hears only those things and he himself believes nothing else and that's our thing i know several people in that new york people because i set them up for it

If you could not have...

Yeah.

You do any bit of a great job?

Yeah, okay.

There, nothing good with him?

Ah, fine.

Who's your other idea?

Flanagan?

Yeah, alright.

Well, I prefer you around here, but I can sure use you in Tokyo.

I got George Schultz sitting here.

He doesn't want to either.

He's got a lousy job.

He better want to go to Japan.

I like him very much.

Why don't you talk to Henry about that and see how to put his view?

Would you do that?

Talk to Henry and see if he could...

I think, frankly, he would be... We're taking one pass at the belly of Kennedy again on Mayweather.

If we can get him, I think that's the best.

Because he knows all the moves.

What do you think?

Anything else?

Oh, you've got a hell of a job over there.

Talk to Henry about it, will you?

And we'll see.

Yeah.

Oh, I'll be sure.

Yeah.

Anything you can get him to do would be good, if you're ever doing anything.

You mentioned him?

Yeah.

Well, Eaton is a prestigious figure.

We consider him the secretary of state, you know.

Oh, yes, yes.

Very, very high up.

Yes.

He could do either one.

I think, let me say, the first choice, I really feel the first choice for Native would be Kennedy.

You can see why.

He has to work so closely with everybody.

Kennedy would just do an excellent job, and I could keep him in the cabinet that way, and I could do that, and they're just fine.

You could also sort of advise him about it.

But he could be very good in Japan.

Very good in Japan.

And he's a hell of a big man.

yeah all right that's good i think it sounds more more impressive another name yeah i've heard that you've got a company

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I would start with the deep mud.

I mean, I just think he's a big man for the job.

Everybody would recognize him.

I don't care where he's from.

It's fine.

No, no, just keep on.

Okay.

Oh, one other thing.

Harper wrote me a letter and said he didn't find his soul up there.

He thought that he wasn't doing exactly the right thing in the money supply.

Now, I guess you can't emphasize too strongly that you've got to get it.

your friends, our friends, and so forth, to raise holy hell with them, about them, and to do them.

Yeah, well, he didn't put it quite that far, but... Yeah.

Yeah, and then Gabe and others got up and defended him, I know.

I know that's what happened, but, you know, Arthur hears what he wants to hear, but I want him to get the heat from people that he will respect.

And Ken Allen, what about Allen Gordon?

Get out, Gordon.

You get out.

We just need to get him off his ass and tell Gus Lee that we need to do it.

Don't get me in the middle of it.

You put him up to it, will you?

Every friendly guy, if he's got any others that like him, that argue with him, you know.

Okay.

Yeah.

You know, Freddie,

We need, right now, we need a big man who's close to me, and no one's going to have a stroke.

Also, it would be very helpful to have a man who knows about me.

Sitting in Brussels, you know,

If you have an opportunity, maybe, I don't want to put it to him because he's been such a good man.

I don't want to, I don't know.

Don't put it so hard for me to do it again.

We'll take it when we do have an opportunity just to talk about good cities that I was mentioned.

All the time.

He's been our first candidate all the time.

You know, we've had God, we've been holding him for 60 days.

We've been turning him down.

We've been going around the town with others.

And there aren't any of them that we can take care of.

And if you could give us a year of that mail, it would be interesting.

You know what I mean?

It's an issue of right and left.

When you drop a little bit, then you've got to.

Whether it's over.

I told Henry he could come over at 4.30.

All right, sir.

I understand.

But can Rob tell him to come over right now?

All right, sir.

I'm going to mention it today in case he's at all.

Now, he says no.

He's fine.

He'd like to have him do a special job.

All right, sir.

He's not a fellow place to be.

It's an exciting place to be.

I remember back in the old days, they would be more than just being over it.

That's not what you need to do.

You need to have somebody who can stand for the United States in the air and struggle.

Have it be our top of, it really needs to be our top of battery.

We're gonna put power over the other two, so we can get it back very quickly.

Get back over this one.

If we pull it off, I try some ice cream, and the way that Paxton is going is a mess.

A mad mess.

But if it isn't going to be this bad, you know, if it never is going to be that bad, the real question is what is going to happen.

I still am, I'm not, I don't have polyamory, I'm still a little bit awkward, I don't know what to do.

You know, that's why I'm proud of you.

You're not a person that worries me, but I'm proud of you.

I'm not going to argue, I'm not going to discuss it, I'm not going to do too much.

You know, it's a little program, it's all sort of increasing, but not for a while.

You know, that's why I'm proud of you.

It's relevant, but as I understand, I can't control it.

I don't have something to control it.

I want to show off my picture.

Well, that we can do with the obligation of third.

Good.

High as you can.

Good.

That's all.

Let me tell you something.

Well, I'm sure the obligation will hurt his heart, so I don't know about that.

Yeah.

Hello.

How about that?

Did you get to John on that, whether he knew it?

Let's see, did he look to it with favor or disfavor or what?

What day is it?

Monday.

And then he'll have a meeting with Schultz and, uh, or, and, and, uh, Kister, too.

Yeah.

Fine.

Well, this comes first, except he has time and everything, and this is a brief book, so it's good.

Good.

How is he?

Is he feeling good?

Did he even, did you get the money supply about Burns?

What's Senator doing with that tax bill?

I get it.

He's probably apoplectic.

I'm just unbelievable.

No, that damn thing.

No, the other irresponsible thing.

You know, they're going to have babysitter deductions and...

She writes, I mean, it's unbelievable.

We'll have to sign it.

Good.

Let's help him all we can.

Let's build it up.

When can he, when can he announce, will he announce it?

Yeah.

But then we want to get filled up with that thing.

Nature, for instance.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, if I was going to do it the next week.

Good.

Yeah.

Not to call him yet, though.

Or I haven't called him.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

Yeah, I'll do it.

All right.

OK, I'll check it over.

Good.

Good day.

Good.

Well, you're done.

We're off to work this over again.

Yes, sir.

I think it's going to be behind us.

Well, I'm talking about the Congress.

The Congress is about to pass, isn't it?

I think that will take it out at some point.

The last word I heard was...

When will that bill pass, though?

Before the end of the session?

I think we keep shoving, unless they throw a complete slowdown on it.

And I think we've got a chance to get it passed by the end of the session, but with things that theoretically we don't want.

Right, right.

We don't want retroactivity.

The thing that I think we ought to really move fast on is the year collection of fuel.

That's critical to have the extension go into 73.

They want to make it six months.

There is something to do with it.

I guess it creates terrible uncertainty.

No, not in the members.

That's the one thing that I feel very strongly about it.

It's very complicated.

Clark feels that the Democrats, the powers that they have, they tend to believe the Democrats are

anxious to make an issue out of an interception.

He said, be watchful that they don't come in quickly with a very strong move on the .

And I think that that's why it's important, and why Secretary Conley this morning, after we talked to him, he's in fact doing that.

He's pushing Treasury to get them to get the legislation passed in the Senate House.

And he's up to that to trade with the companies he's going to be using, both the tax bill, of course.

Well, I was thinking of the economic stabilization.

That is what I must say.

They're so bad.

I think it was Republican Congress.

A more powerful chief executive.

Less powerful than Congress.

Congress is the seat of authority.

That's right.

I think you must have some fun with that.

Oh, with that.

The main thing, I really don't want you to miss the mansion.

That's fine.

We've got a mansion.

And it doesn't have an operating facility.

It's a little bit silly.

Excellent.

But don't take her.

We'll bring in a good deputy.

We'll be fine.

Don't you think so?

But I like...

I want Donna on this time.

You know, Angela...

I agree.

Yours should be totally non-partisan.

I would take a certain idea of the...

I'm just going to keep that sort of...

I'm always trying to appreciate the private and the public and that...

This is breaking our neck getting the thing in place and it's now just about there.

It's going to be tricky to keep good relationships with the Board and the Commission.

We have to do it at more than one level.

My relationship with Baldwin and Grayson are excellent.

And I'm, as George suggested least of all, I'm moving around with different members and getting relationships where I didn't have any.

The staffs are the problem.

You know how the staffs are.

They're carving out a church and shoving papers in front of bulbs inside, fascinating to watch the bureaucrats working underneath.

So we're seeding the ground down there.

We're violating the memorandum of initial here one day, giving them semi-autonomy.

We're kind of seeding people in throughout the operation so we'll have some stability.

George, how long do you think we'll have some restraints left on?

or maybe for six months, it could work for six months at least.

That's probably if it's going to last until late spring, and it's good.

That's going to be important to keep getting around it, and it's going to stay out.

It's going to work in terms of the reality, and it's going to keep the market forces there, and it's going to keep some kind of restraint in place for that long, and that will be unachievable.

In Jordan, we figured out that we exempted about 15% of the economy that's not covered now by the controls through the various exemptions.

I'm glad it's that high, aren't you?

Yes, and I think that the sooner the Price Commission can raise its level of who has to record the oldest business records and so on, the better.

We do that.

Yeah, that's right.

We've been needing most every day until this week, and now that most of our work is done, we'll be able to need less off.

The Stein Castle is something that we can't possibly do.

That's on the site to be controlled.

They've got a lot of work to do.

But the cabinet members couldn't keep on for another nine days, taking all that.

It was just too much.

And also, they're not administered anymore.

It's being administered by the Price Commission, the pay board, and the staff, the CLC, so it's not like free.

But they've been great.

They're really happy.

They did a wonderful job.

Well, just saying, it was a long hour.

Oh.

And it's good to be doing something important.

Virginia and I, I've never had so much fun.

I saw her, I just listened.

The first meeting, the television was there, John Connolly, etc.

There was a telegram from Julie Lee saying that they were going to leave their prices at the lowest low for the last few months, but they were going to be able to keep them there all the way to the prison.

And Virginia, Jonathan and Virginia, the telegram from the TV cameras came in.

John called on her, and she read this thing.

There were 32,000 inquiries the first 24 hours of this program out of these iron songs.

And we're getting handouts.

What are you going on about?

I don't know if I'm doing the right thing.

Do you approve of my going down?

Yes, sir.

I heard the line was going to go wrong.

I admitted a lack of knowledge about exactly what was going on down there.

I'm more looking at the money.

The instinct is that things might not be bad.

I also think it might not be a bad place to get some answers to any criticisms on foreign policy.

I don't know.

It gets to a point where it's too expensive.

It's sort of a hell of a time to come out with.

It's a...

I can tell you what it is.

It's a way of going into peace, if you could have one.

And it's all incredibly persuasive.

I don't know how hard it is.

I'm not going to go down there and talk about that.

That's correct.

Yeah, that's right.

I've got to stay out of that game.

I want that to be done.

You're a cop, right?

Well, even there, the theory we've all had is that the cost of living counts that you receive are those that you let them pay for at the price that they should get out.

I see.

the Schultz concept, which I subscribe to.

What I'm trying to do is to

to defend the pay board and the press commission and what they're doing now is specific.

And in the process, look, these people are good people, they're dealing with tough problems, and it's not the president or the cross-living council or the cabinet that are making these decisions.

These are decisions made by these groups that are represented in the program.

And it kind of separates you from the mission action from the journey.

Do you have anything to add?

I'm a welter.

Are we now blackmailed?

I did not know we came here.

I know that Nick was, when he talked to me on the phone, he was very, very educated.

It felt very good to me.

And I'm very surprised.

I mean, you can feel hatred.

I mean, you know, it's provided for community development.

Yes, I will.

It's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh,

I think Ogilvy ought to go to the bench.

Not until the elections or the signing of the government.

And he's very comfortable with you.

And with you.

Mitchell said, well, what if... See, Ogilvy's got to decide... Well, what I had to make a deal with him.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not now.

Christ, you couldn't get it with Byrne now.

But he's a fine lawyer, I understand.

He's a good man.

I don't know what Kelly wants, but he can certainly send him to the bench.

Not a problem at all.

It's crazy.

I don't know who repped them, I just talked about it here now.

Yeah, one other one.

Well, if you want to come in, tell me why you're here.

Oh, I know, but maybe it shouldn't have been spent.

Why the hell do we want to finish it?

I know, I know, and maybe they should just cover up the hole, let the city go back to its, uh, necklace.

What the hell do we care about?

Why do we make all this effort?

I believe you.

I can't get excited about this stuff.

Who's calling Moynihan on this?

Sure, Moynihan.

You want a picture with me?

Well, fine, fine, fine.

But I don't know what good it does.

It's very important.

I'll be glad to see it, of course.

Don't, I don't, it isn't all that important, but I'll be glad to see Royale if he wants to.

He's a, you know, a friend and a, you know, a great friend.

That's what I'm excited about.

Old rules.

All the rest, they're all nice, nice things to, you know, look at the signs.

We just must have been bogged down a little bit.

That's basically something the home president should follow.

I've looked all along for this, and I just don't believe I should go down, climb down to the subway well, and it doesn't have anything to do with climbing to the subway.

So they just don't have anything to do with it.

Let me ask you, let me tell you, just get them off as soon as you can.

Conway, please.

I have heard... No, no, it's in peace.

I have heard this feeling about the thing.

I know that you've thought all along, you know, about the jargon and the rest.

And now we've got the policy, and I think we certainly have...

The question is whether it's worth the cost.

they will be working across homes to get rid of the dampness in an orderly way.

Now that's the thing, and I can draw back, I just got what you got to do is to be in charge.

I'm the lead controller, that's fine.

But I'm the lead controller, I hold the point, and the light.

hi john say i wanted you to know that uh that uh that i would be uh great if you could do a conference on monday since i will do i'm going to do one the following tuesday which i think is about the right so i did one last week this week but it's not a review and uh and then we'll have our our international meetings on tuesday all right and uh

Because what I was thinking, what brought this to mind, and I read your speech up there, and all the positive points you made, I just want you to see, I want you to make that before a bigger audience.

You see, now, who knows what they'll come up with, they'll get a bigger plan, and we're all on the same end.

Those third and fourth quarter figures need to be bragged about a little bit.

The success of the freeze, George Keating, for example, the day he said the freeze was unsuccessful, was just one feature wrong, right?

So, uh, try it when you like, and it's fine.

I just don't want to, I just don't want to use your horse's head.

We've got the freeze question.

All right, fine.

Well, I'm going to leave tonight about 7 o'clock to go down to Oregon, and I speak there at 10 o'clock tomorrow.

I think your advice is right.

I'm just doing better.

I'm doing good.

But I'm not going to be afraid to talk to him at the end of the day.

So I'll be right out there.

I'm too grateful.

Yeah, what I am going to do, I'm going to give them credit where credit is due for supporting some foreign policy.

I'm going to give them another high mark because they have been doing it for a while.

And then I'm going to say, no, we need your support.

And then I'm going to ask for their support.

And that's what I'm going to do.

Never heard of them.

Absolutely never heard of them.

I don't...

Let me say, they were never when I was there.

Now, it may be that they're young fellows that were taken in later in the country.

And I bet you that John doesn't even know them.

I never heard of them.

I never heard of the fellows.

May not, may not.

They're not still in the firm?

Oh.

Well, we'll stop that.

I don't know.

Who is Sheriff Moody?

You can see it hexing.

Oh!

I see.

So now you find this sperm, and on the other side of it, I do it.

Ooh.

That sperm would be involved in growing a cone or something.

Not on him.

No.

Oh, well, I do, but you break up.

I've never heard him talk, and I just don't, he must, in other words, well, I don't know.

He was not there when I was there.

Not there when I was there at all.

Right.

Yeah.

Good, good.

Never.

He would never use a law firm.

Never.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't.

But you see, he's completely severed from it, too.

He would never do that.

No, but I mean, he wouldn't trust me here.

You know.

Sure, sure.

Well, we'll get after John.

Well, I am, too.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

Good.

Monday?

Good.

Well, have it after your death, Fred.

Good.

Well, listen.

Okay.

You'll find out.

I imagine they're pulling somebody's leg and we're going to stop them right away.

That's a big burden, you know.

They can't engage in that kind of crap.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

I think I'd better see Kissinger for this time that it's found.

And then...

On the Deacon Cole thing.

Yeah.

No, he wanted to see me.

I was wondering.

I don't know enough about it, frankly, as to how it was doing, except that

Do it without getting caught in it.

That's the way I would do it.

As you move along, get the thing going.

So that it doesn't appear we're giving up on the fight.

You can't appear to be giving up on the fight, but half of those things, I would admit, is prehorsing and fighting.

The other hand, I am a...

My God, I'm a flea market man.

Well, the important thing is to keep it clear that you're against inflation.

Right.

And, uh, I don't know if we've got a result for this, but maybe we'll get a result.

And it seems to me that this concept of moving firms around the, uh, pre-notification into reporting is not reporting, but nevertheless covering.

is really a very good device.

It's a good idea.

And if we can just do that regularly, right after a crystal, move that cutoff point up, and then do it again at Easter time or something after Easter, all of a sudden, you can sort of wake up and say,

My thought is that that plus one other thing, and that is to systematically look for sectors of the economy where the inflationary pressures seem not to be great, or where there's a good reason from a management standpoint, a enforcement standpoint, not to control, and then periodically take a group of those and completely exempt them from control, in addition to changing tiers.

Just like we have 15% that's not in full already, take another 3 or 5% at some point and decontrol them.

If you can show that there's not inflationary pressures there, get them off fast.

For example, we picked Tom Curtis to chair the rent board.

He hates complaints.

I know.

He hates them.

And he'll figure out a darn good logical reason to get those darn things off.

Believe me, that's the one I agree with.

I think rent controls are the worst damn thing that I can think of.

George may not agree, but I've been to too many countries abroad.

Paris is the best you can think of.

See, what do you mean I may not agree?

But rent controls are terrible.

Utterly impossible.

Curtis is a perfect chairman.

He can figure out a logical reason why we should get those kind of things off.

And he'll talk in terms of it.

Oh, won't he?

And honest.

To a fault, he's got to take it.

He's very inflexible.

Absolutely.

Don't give him that.

No.

But he needs something like that.

But what do you really think of the performance to the dawn of those, those, you know, I got a great impression of that.

Well, it hasn't gone a little beyond what we thought they would go, though, probably not.

It smells like it's 1972 already up there.

Oh, it is.

And it is a little early.

Well, they know that the things that we're deciding now are going to affect them, and that's why they're coming in now to screw it up.

And that's clear enough.

Where it will hurt is down the road when you don't have the money to do any of the things that, particularly the Democratic types are yelling for.

Sure.

But we also see them.

Sure.

A lot of the things that have to be done.

There's some decent things to be done.

And the money isn't going to be there.

And it's a rash band if they're going to rise in taxes, unless you get it from Congress, of course.

On the other hand, the thing to do, George, is I can try to tell everybody down here that nobody should be, you know, pessimistic about that's the battle.

This is a war.

You can fight a lot of them right now.

Sure should.

And kick them in the face.

They'll kick you in the balls.

So we did that.

Thank you.

I had luck with my friends, and they were both low-concentrated.

How did I do them last night?

The other night when we were discussing whether we should go or not, she spoke in some hall at St. Louis back in 1965.

He said, that was the first time I was following him.

He was in awe.

And he was very well impressed.

He said, he doesn't talk to people like that.

Very strongly, that's very much on Colin.

He said, he feels that you're out in the country, and he asked you about this.

He feels that the impressions of this very strong country that we are,

I think that's an impression of the business community.

Yeah, the business community is great.

The power is the strength.

Maybe it's true.

I don't know.

But it seems to me that we haven't given him a retroactivity.

We haven't been very spoofing about this.

Well, it's a good thing.

I just wonder what this later is raising a certain amount of hell.

And they were saying, gee, this is great.

Oh, sure, it's like the objections, it's like the hell-raising that's going on about Rehnquist.

And to us, it's, you know, how, my God, if they went in easy, then our conservative friends would, you know, watch them.

Good judges, of course, would realize it, but they'd say, maybe they'd look into their records and find that the poor guy was probably in an integrated school or something like that.

Not now.

So your enemy's home here.

What's your view, John?

I think that George is right.

You don't want me to just go in and be a belligerent bastard, do you?

No, sir, not yet.

With them?

Not yet.

If they walk out, they won't be.

Right.

There may come a time, if I hope there isn't, if there may be a time.

If George Meany thinks he can play along, we're going to see what we can do.

But I'd like the president to actually post them.

And it will be a real, real go.

And he'll lose.

And we'll be in all those problems.

I know.

They shut up and they're chilling this whole time.

It'd be an awful, rough go.

But on the other hand, right now, I think there is a feeling in the business community.

Like the guy who walks around and says, fight, I'll hold your coke.

That's what the business community is doing to you.

They're saying, tell me what you're doing.

We didn't have to respond.

But you do it.

Except they're all, the business community, to me, a shocking guy.

They're fishing about that control of profit margins.

Not margins.

I know that's control.

Yes, it is.

It's the margins.

It's not the problems.

Not the total problems.

What the hell was the matter with them?

They didn't understand what they did.

I don't think.

I don't want to read that thing.

It doesn't make sense.

Don't you agree, George, that price emissions approach is basically sensible?

I think it's sort of inevitable.

When you have control, and they've been the owners of control, and now they've got it, then I'm pretty sure they want it.

And that's probably a good thing.

I've heard that too.

I think that the private market approach

You have the last three years, and at least two of those years were not very good years in the public.

But this year is great.

This year is better.

About 74, 69, 100 years ago.

It's a fair prophecy, but it's great.

Herb Stein, I think, did a cute anecdote.

He said that it reminded him of the kid who shot both of his parents and then pled for mercy before the judge because he was an orphan.

You know, he asked for leadership, and now they get it, and they think, oh my lord, it's uncertain or something.

Which is kind of interesting.

But I think that it sort of shows the sense in which too long has been...

Tell him, no hurry, any time.

Tell him, any time.

Is Mitchell coming or not?

Well, I think on the decontrol framework, you see, we do that, we've been here, you know, we're fighting for all this, but we do it.

And as time goes on, there'll be steps to step things up a frame.

Anyway, I just sent a note to you to take your time.

Oh, I understood you wanted to see me.

Yeah, I did want to see you.

We had a reception.

I know about all the reception.

What are you?

Do you want to go back and come back later?

I have to meet with a group of students who I have to find.

Who?

You and everyone else.

Boy, what the hell did you say to them?

I don't know.

I'll be...

I just need five minutes.

Well, sit down now.

Wait, wait.

You want to wait and then as soon as Mitchell here has him, wait.

No, we're, we're busy.

We'll, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll get you a, a two-way metro line.

Yeah, that would be nice.

Yeah, I appreciate that.

Fine, George.

We'll see you.

Uh, two things.

We've just discovered that the, uh, North Vietnamese have 4,200 trucks and five cars in an area.

Yeah, I, I just told them they have to wait.

I knew that, yeah, but I wanted to wait until I finished.

Okay.

The five trucks are between 11 and 32 miles from Hanoi.

If we could get those, it would knock out half of their truck fleet.

And, uh...

But you still don't want to do it collectively?

Well, now that you've got the other stuff, it's always there, but these will be there only another week or so.

So we have two choices, Mr. President.

We should either hit them within the next 72 hours, so that they think it's a reaction to what they did on Wednesday, which was completed before they get repeat ones, or hit them after December 1st, when, however, probably most of the trucks will be gone, and the construction convention will start.

So, but I think here I'd like to follow your earlier intuition.

To get the Chinese announcement nailed, you know, I'm inclined to think that we should not give them a reason to, uh, postpone or something like that.

You get my comment?

Oh, yeah.

Now, if you feel that, uh,

Well, we don't have to decide it tonight, anyway.

I suppose we could put it in a place where it'd be gone tomorrow, so that I could tell it to you.

I'm not sure.

But let me find out for Moore how long he thinks these trucks are going to be there.

And once they go back, what we should call it is protective reaction.

It wouldn't really get their attention.

.

You know, let me get the additional...

Your view is...

I was the one...

I must tell you, if it were an ordinary strike in the tacit, I'd say the house would have looked worse to the degree that the sample occurred.

In this case, it's so unusual.

I just think that the reputation for ferocity usually counts rather than occurs.

even with the Chinese and the Soviets, because you could argue that they might say to the Hanoi chief, he really meant what he said to Kito.

Most of the leaders are so churned out that they can say we were provoked by what we do in the Cold War.

In their rush, I don't know whether I can now hand you a chance to say it, we went through our game plan today.

The North Vietnamese were completely dumbfounded.

They asked for a reset.

To consider what we had said.

And we hadn't said anything.

Before they began saying, I've got nothing to say to you because I've heard anything constructive from you as much.

When you have something, therefore I won't make a mistake.

So they asked for a reset.

They left my destination, so the boarder said, I move that we adjourn and not meet next week.

So they asked for another recess, and then they accepted it.

Then they immediately called the press conference and said they had these rumors that Zidak Cho was coming to Paris.

But these rumors are unfounded because Zidak Cho is still there.

So they didn't say it isn't true that he's coming.

They didn't come, they just, so we got them around.

My instinct is that there's not an extraordinary amount of collateral damage.

You're better off doing the gold thing.

I know they may cancel it, but I can't allow them to do it.

There's not a steady amount of collateral damage.

If anything shows significant collateral damage, that clutter has to be eliminated.

that if there are a lot of villagers that are out there that would be hit that we can't do anything about it.

That's why we need to do a lot of work.

That's why we need to have a lot of actors.

We have to get the choice.

We have to be such a surprise that I think we probably wouldn't have much.

But we'll have to check it.

I think we're all not sure what we're trying to do.

That's the other question.

Of course, but there'd be two other considerations.

One is, they would almost certainly have said another thing, but...

The argument for doing it is true, although the military grounds deeply in fact could get 4100 cars.

That would be worth the build up in the most sensitive place because there'd be almost no quick way of replacing it if it sets the value in four to six weeks.

But then, and secondly, that the reply would be so ferocious that it would indicate that we are through with this thing now.

And then, in other words, we are carrying out our fuel threat.

And we've just about had it.

And therefore, if my fuel doesn't go home,

We're doing tests on the plus sign.

That is the major.

That major consideration is that one, not the version.

The version is important.

The good size is not the size.

This one is important.

This one is decisive.

Now, what you've got to weigh against that, in my opinion, is, much as we want the version as decisive as this is, it may not affect .

Because maybe we're starting that road.

And the risk that he got away there is the risk on the Chinese side.

The Soviets are going to have a job.

I'm not concerned about that.

They're never going to bug us.

I wonder about their intelligence.

I'm not sure that I have to check.

It's obvious that they're going to disperse them through the system, and I think we can send them there very soon.

We can do it next week, too.

The only reason I said we should do it in about two hours is we can't do it on November 22.

Oh, we can't do it?

Well, in fact, we have to go right now.

I mean, the point is, the question is now, or after we make the Chinese announcement that there might

The feeling at the moment is, get the announcement out of the way, and then crack it.

I'm not good enough.

I don't want to put any at odds with some changes.

It's so overriding.

Well, you know how reluctant I've been.

I was abused by Bill all this long.

I think on the road, a reputation for veracity helps you out.

I agree.

Oh, I know.

I certainly do.

You certainly have one for being tough.

Yeah.

So, we've got to do something.

I know...

You see, when you were talking about a conventional strike, my reasoning was exactly the same as yours.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those can wait.

There's no reason why a conventional strike can't be done on December 5th as well as on...

In this feature.

Or again, the dope on it.

And maybe you... Well, if you like it, why not sit down?

Now, one other thing.

That's not so important.

Yes.

After a saying on Monday that the military class hasn't checked, the officers have now put out a statement that the Russians have put in 10 TU-16s.

What the hell has he done that for?

Is he trying to build up to the planes here?

I've been to the planes here, and I've just talked to Mitchell about it, who saw the statement.

I think that we, if anyone's going to get there, it's going to be you.

Well, look, look, look, look, look.

The thing to do is to get to know Ravine.

Every second, all of a sudden, the Iraqis are doing all of this.

That's what we've got to get to know.

Ravine has got to know, you know.

Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look,

Okay, fine.

And we're, if that would be all, we've worked the press thing all out now.

We're going to go, we're going to have a conference, we're going to have a press conference on domestic affairs.

I've talked to them once, and I'm going to have, we're going to have, you know, let us know who's speaking tomorrow.

And we'll go ahead with the, and I'm going to have a press conference on television, on television, on television, on television, on television, on television, on television, on television.

I'll get it from 7.30.

Western time.

10.30 Eastern time.

That's on the 30th.

Well, it hasn't been in 18 years.

I just want that now to be the time.

They announced it will be on the 20th, and I respect that.

And you respect it.

But I want to tell them that on the 30th, I will have a question on it.

Well, they announced that you would make these other things be abbreviated if they were not.

Right.

Good.

Tell the other thing.

Nixon, Shultz & Sanchez on National Economy and Welfare Reform

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 18, 1971

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