Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Watergate and Public Relations

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It's really very good to have John in on this.

I haven't met him in the present time on another matter, but he, I'm glad he's attending in a very subtle amount.

Yeah, well, he's, you know, he's here.

He's our people all the time.

The N.E.A.

yesterday should get back to our freedom.

Sam Carpenter was supposed to be there when they were out on the streets, and some fish never showed.

Really, he stood around and signed all the grants.

So we're doing a lot of

things that I just wouldn't put in my head.

It's a very good idea.

Sure.

But it does show presidential interest.

And again, I don't have, I don't know.

They can't.

Did NEA say you ignored them that morning?

NEA is basically a public organization.

She's a part of the future.

There are lots of our friends, you know, people of color.

The establishment of running these organizations don't control all their members, so their members see us kind of worried and wonder about the consequences of this mess all the time.

See?

That's absolutely right.

That's why cabinet officers should go, you know, family.

But the family thing is a weapon that we are using to create the effectively for the last year.

As a matter of fact, we do it ever since the Whitties.

We have to realize the...

It's just like anything else, the more they do, the better they do it.

And the more value they have, because they build their own celebrity value in the process.

They build their own.

I think you're right.

Their importance becomes more established.

Well, I'm just getting ready for this.

Let me ask this.

In the handling of the bucket that I run, Dicker's advice, and I think it's very good, is to stay right with the disabled, actually, because there's actually a bunch of them.

I'm not going to add to that.

The question that we'll ask, was there any White House involvement?

The way that they prepared themselves on the White House, I'm not sure if there was any White House involvement, or if they're lying.

I don't think it's happening.

with my own staff, well, that's too much of an obvious in my opinion.

I think you should just be saying that there's no one else involved.

Or is that, are they afraid of that?

I'm just trying to think whether...

I don't know, but it may be that they're concerned that there's... No?

The only question is whether technically that puts you in a...

In a position of comment?

Well, no, in a spot in the sense that...

On a direct basis, while you're asking about it, I think you're absolutely correct.

No question.

The only thing... See, you can get it in the sense that Hunt was involved.

And Hunt was a consultant for the White House.

At the time, he was in.

Yeah.

Say it again.

Well, that's the only line in the White House you've got.

And there are other people that are former White House people who could at some point become involved.

Or maybe I'm mistaken.

But they weren't.

They aren't White House members.

Yeah.

Hi.

Hello.

Hi, Bob.

Could you know we're going to buckle forward in three o'clock?

Thank you.

Uh, let me ask one question, uh, that, uh, uh, in, in, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my intentions of this thing.

Well, uh, this is a great way to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

Now, the only thing I would say, the only question that you can press on is, well, whether or not I think I should say no, but I don't know.

I notice that you say, well, nothing has been happening here .

I don't want to say that.

Is that what you've been saying, Mark?

Yeah, I know, but he's not quite as a .

Yeah, I'm tracking.

I'm tracking.

No.

Fine.

I'll just say, Mr. Ziggler's covered that.

How's that?

I think I'm just leaving then.

You don't have any stories, Mr. Ziggler.

Okay.

Yeah, well, I don't think I'll get into it, though.

What do you think?

Do you want me to?

No, no.

But it's a nice thing to have that you are sometimes saying, well, I don't know, I don't know.

Maybe you don't want to have to spend too much time with the other side.

Yeah.

I just beg your attention.

Okay.

Thank God.

Now, I think I'll just say, well, Mr. Zipper, here's part of that.

Because he said he'd been asked whether Colson was involved.

He was asked about Hunt and said he left the White House three months ago.

He said he was asked about Colson, the first day he left Jacksonville, and he was not involved.

I mean, it's a great respect for him.

I mean, it's for me to get into it.

Then they bring up another story.

The president said it was White House not involved.

Denies White House involvement.

Denies, yes, that's right.

That's the one that...

Denied or present concerns.

They're playing it so irresponsibly.

What?

They're playing it so irresponsibly in the attempt to make a White House thing out of it.

I quote the story today, which you probably saw, where the headline says, White House, it disappears.

Yes.

in White House 8 missing in Carolina case or something.

And they go into it.

You have to read down 10 paragraphs.

The former White House left.

Yeah.

He was also a former... Dave O'Hara.

It doesn't say O'Hara in the name.

He disappeared.

Somebody ought to call him.

I know you are.

Let me say this, though.

I don't think this is a big, big country.

It's starting a country somewhere.

It's not.

I've read the news already, but I don't want to get cluttered up before the press conference on it.

Well, let me tell you, it was completely off the TV test.

Let me tell you something about this.

You're very correct.

Thank you.

But I, you know, it's a Washington son-of-a-bitch story.

Plus, what's happened to it is the American is so fucked up that everybody's laughing about it.

Well, the point is, the New York Times is all this crazy goddamn kid.

This association for the Americans, a right-wing anti-Casper group in Cuba.

In Miami, actually.

And he checked into the bank there.

The Cuban thing is still... Now let me ask you this.

I have a very strong feeling, because it's a personal thing, and because these statements are horrible to me, the rebuttal of Sue Anderson.

No, I figured, well, there's a reason for it.

He was not involved in this.

Huh?

No, but Anderson didn't say he was.

Well, that's made a difference.

He says that's got no play except the Anderson broadcast.

And what Anderson said is true.

That's the best defense against Lytle when Anderson's smart enough to know that.

Bob did the Lytle way in the letter.

I read that, and I said, that is Lytle.

I could prove, I could win that case any damn day.

The evidence was written.

It's an indication the proposal was tied up with this group that broke in there.

I mean, it's very, uh...

I'm thinking also put them off on another trail.

So if they sued somebody, Roboto sues them.

I'm not sure we need it now.

We're in pretty good shape.

Today's news is all good.

In the first place, we've got Judge Ritchie for the civil case.

The civil case has been the worrisome.

Well, the Democrats outsmarted themselves.

They made a fatal legal error.

They filed a suit on behalf of all Democrats.

thereby disqualifying any Democratic judge from hearing.

He was a party to the cause.

So the next judge up was a Democratic judge and would have been the one assigned to the case.

He had to disqualify himself on technical grounds because he's a part of the party to the plea.

And then the one up after that was Judge Ritchie, who was a very solid, very... And for us, programmable, and knows exactly what's going on.

And Ritchie has played it just beautifully.

They intended to, well, not in public, but they intended to move him immediately on depositions.

That was their tactic.

So Edward Bennett Williams was in yesterday afternoon and stopping and banging the walls in Richie's chambers and everything and Richie just calmly said he was busy the rest of this week.

He would meet with them on Monday to discuss the question of when to

decide when to start the timing on setting dates for activity and so on.

In other words, he's just going to let it fiddle along forever.

And he knows, he understands it.

There's no point in giving this to him.

He also knows and uses the possibilities that we have in the world.

And he'll entertain all sorts of delaying motions and all that.

Well, another thing I think has been good, Bob, is that I must say I'm rather excited

He must have gotten the word from over there to get out of the thing.

Our security gets the fact that papers are missing.

We're going to have a whole series of that.

It's truism, yes.

Things have been stolen.

Yeah, let me put it that way.

They're not really commissary hats, but they think there's enough, you know... Well, Bob, you know, Dan, well, Mr. Buck, you know, we treat every hotel room, and that's the other thing.

I thought that the stories this morning, even in the post, the idea that everybody's worried about Buckingham, and we're doing that, and also the fact that

Larry O'Brien says that Anderson had papers from his office.

Well, now, this puts Anderson in the booking business.

That's right.

You're right.

Sure.

I think that's great.

And Anderson now is denying that he got the stuff from these people, but he said, of course, I got it from an inside source.

Well, there's the whole thing.

See my part is, I just want to see that Pulitzer Prize written by one columnist.

We've got another thing going, which has taken hold a little bit, which is we started moving on the hill, letting him come out from there, which is that this whole thing is a Jack Anderson thing.

Jack Anderson, and that's what the Hill guys think, and they're starting to move that around now.

And we started the rumor yesterday morning, and it's starting to come back already.

The what?

The Anderson?

That Jack Anderson has put all this together.

He was bugging the Democratic offices, and .

Because these humans are tied to him, these are agency cues, and now he's trying to do a diversionary cover-up by putting on this other thing.

The great thing about this is it is so totally fucked up and so, so badly done that nobody believes that we could have done it.

That's right.

I know.

I hope that it's just beyond congregation.

Well, it is.

It sounds like a comic-con program.

It really does.

It'd make a funny goddamn movie.

You know, here's these children with their accents.

Rubber gloves and standing there.

well-made, they're expensive, well-made business suits, wearing rubber gloves, and put their hands up and shouting, don't shoot, when the guys come in.

It really is like a comic novel.

Also, they have no case on time.

Right.

Because there is no case in there.

They have not been able to make him.

They can't put him into the scene at all.

We know where he was though.

But they don't.

The FBI doesn't.

That's right.

They pursued him and then unable to tie him in at all to the case.

What about the disappearance?

So there's no come back?

Well, they've got no warrant for him so they don't care whether he disappeared.

He hasn't disappeared.

He has disappeared.

Yeah, but the hunting is beginning to run out.

The legal people, the FBI, who are running the investigation, have no, there's no way to fix Hunt on the case.

They've issued no warrant for him.

They don't care whether he disappears or not.

The only thing there is, is his name is in the phone book, in the address book, but there's so as I would tell the clerk's name.

You know how that is.

The proposal's name and everything with the address book.

I don't know.

Another thing is he doesn't know his name.

No, he doesn't.

He told me he doesn't know anything.

He doesn't know.

He does know Suarez, but he doesn't know.

Well, Suarez is one of the biggest contractors in Florida.

But he doesn't know anything.

Suarez, I think, built that big tall building that he just came, you know, that will come to me.

I think that's where he is.

Another good break is they can't trace the currency.

They've just traced it to a Miami bank.

They've traced it to a Miami bank, which is, that's easily done.

But the bank cannot trace the thing beyond that.

They're not required to and they don't maintain any record of where, you know, who takes when it's $100 bills.

If it's bigger denominations, they have to keep a record.

And at $100 bills, they don't, so they don't have anything.

And that's interesting because $100 bills are so common these days.

I guess.

A lot of people carry $100 bills, I guess.

Whatever it is, they don't maintain a record, so there's no way to trace the source of the funds.

Even if there were, it wouldn't be a very great problem.

Unless it could go two more steps, because the funds came from a money order from a South American.

So, uh...

They did it?

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

Well, if they got to that step, then they might be able to get to the South American country and find out where the money order came from, and that isn't good.

But up to that point, we're all right.

And they can't even go to the next point, so we're okay on that.

They're going to continue to crank up the Cuban operation.

I mean, that's the tie-in.

Well, the investigation's leading to looking to other Cubans and that kind of thing.

These guys are alive in some other enterprises that we don't care about.

There's a lot of tie there, and that means still a pretty good story as long as they don't get deceived.

The thing we forget is that we know too much, and therefore read too much into what we see that other people can't read into.

I mean, what seems obvious to us because of what we know, is the network's main thing.

That they would have played it to be held.

because they thought they had something wrong, but they maintained that it is a human thing.

And even though that's a fellow historian, they say, oh, shit.

Well, plus that might help us.

Because what the humans are going to say, and are starting to say, is that they're scared to death that we'll govern.

Does anybody start to say that?

Yes.

Well, good.

How can I do that?

Well, they've got some people to put that in.

A doctor or somebody.

Oh, they're saying, oh, yeah.

Well, I think they should say that.

That's right.

Just so it's done, I see.

But they're getting that one.

Look, the registered Democrats.

Good.

I don't know, for my purposes, if they're...

So it's, at this point, it's looking pretty good.

And they are thinking about doing, which we can do with very easy cover, no problem, just for safety's sake, just to get Lydia out of the country.

And I'll just have him go over to Europe and be checking on some of our financial contributions.

Fundraising to Fundraising Driving Europe.

In your favor.

Do you mean the idea that they're not after him?

Not yet, but it just, they figured, he's moved around, they sent him to LA, he's been out working on some business there, and as a routine matter, go to your event, just as well, if something does surface, not to have him around, they're having to move it after it does.

And then they can wait and see if we want it back, and see if we can bring it back.

I have a question.

Well, the way they can let somebody talk gets somebody shot, which is still a potential.

Now, they're leaving McCord in jail to keep an eye on the other guys and make any contact with them at all.

And the guys don't, they don't want to get them out fatally.

Apparently, they'd rather leave them in right now.

They'd probably go home.

I don't think they care.

And it's, for a lot of reasons, it's better off in jail than it is.

It's better for school and better, you know, for marketing.

I didn't even cover it last night in NBC.

It's in this paper, sure.

But yeah, Scripps Howard is quoting unnamed sources in Miami and saying they believe the 500 received this 500 Democrats out of fear that a Democratic president might seek accommodation in Manchester.

That's

We're going to have to tighten up on the security business.

— 1 min 38 s with no transcribed speech —

He said he was going to be seeing Bob today, and he covered it with him, but he was sure it was worth it.

You know, I could look up the House and think of it, but I think it's just not good.

I think it's better not to.

And I really think he has said that he'd rather stay over at the Inn, that it's better not to.

He goes to the Inn.

You know, he goes to the Houses and talks to the general.

But he enjoys it.

He likes to bump out on the secretaries and the aides and all that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

You know, I sure hope you can find that place over in the hallway in some place, because that last weekend, it was boring.

I'll take it.

For the first time in a while, we've got to have a place where we've got to have a private house.

And even there, I don't know if it's true.

Because what will happen is people will walk to the beach.

That's right.

You know, we've got to.

You've got two of the most unique places in the world, and the two that you own.

Anybody else, if you get a private house on the beach.

I can go to a private consulate and trinkets.

I can go to Market Brocks and trinkets.

I have total privacy.

I can walk out on the beach and lie out in the sun for an afternoon, go for a swim, go surfing, do anything I want to do to go out, and there's no problem.

But if you walk out of there and onto the beach, there'd be 5,000 people gathered by the time you get out of the United States.

But you also want to explore the United States.

There must be, when you get down into the bay, areas where you can take the Sequoia, or I don't mean to take it from here, but you know, and swim off of the boat, you know, and we often do that at Key Biscayne, you know, the house built down on Elliott's Key and so on.

Boats, if you get what I mean.

Sure.

Take your beach along.

What I was thinking was to take the Sequoia down to a nice place, a helicopter down to it, and get on the Sequoia, and get the night to swim off the boat, and so forth.

That just might be an idea.

Riding the Sequoia down the river is not much of a, and riding a boat all night isn't much, because I just had the hope, if it were a yacht, I would.

But the river is, but I'm thinking about getting the Sequoia to the bay,

Which is Saltwater.

Huh?

Well, why don't you check that?

Yeah.

See if there's a good bay area for you.

Yeah.

That might be an idea.

Yeah.

But you just don't think there's a house down there.

Well, I don't know.

It has to be a very wealthy person on a hell of a lot.

And there may be one.

There may be somebody's estate where they've got three miles of isolated beach.

You know, it's possible.

Most need is someplace where they've got about a mile in the way of beach that we do have two unique places.

California is unbelievable with the fact that they're being next to that emergency station.

So you have one side that you can put a guard there.

And also the other side around the nice people.

Mostly.

But you can never, no matter how nice they are, you can never count on them.

Like San Paolo down at Oceanside, they're all nice people.

But if you went down there, even the nice people are a problem.

Even Marshall.

And you've got the whole business of picture taking, you know, where people get their cameras with the long lenses.

No, I mean to get pictures of you in your bathing suits.

Oh, yeah.

Or, you know, stumbling in the ocean or something.

And they love to sell them.

You probably have a question thing in here.

I don't know how plainly it is.

The point came up with the problem of Laird's position, which you reiterated again yesterday, and in a sense made it worse.

And, you know, he says he won't support Sullivan unless he gets right in the D1 position.

full funding, which has created some confusion because the state position, the White House position, have meant that we must go ahead with these programs, but we've specifically stated that you have, that they are not hinged one to the other.

They are both essentially parallel.

They're parallel, but not tied.

He has tied them over and over.

How applied or not?

Because in the Chiefs' minds, they are tied.

Because the deal that was cut with the Chiefs was that we would go for the others, which we are going for.

But we are not publicly saying that we have to have one in order to have the other.

We're not publicly saying, look, you've got to give us one or don't give us the other.

We can't, but Laird is.

Worse is the confusion that Laird is raising by he's announced his $5 billion supplemental

for the increased activity in Vietnam, to maintain the increased activity in Vietnam through December 31st at the present level.

The problem that creates is the obvious one of telling people that you're going to keep on at this level for six more months.

What OMB is arguing for, and NSC supports them in this, is that we do have to go for a supplemental.

It would not be credible not to.

But that it should be a smaller supplemental and should be tied to increased activity in Vietnam through September 30th.

So that we don't sound like we're going to go on forever at this rate.

Correct.

And they have enough in that to carry it through the election.

If we still do want to maintain this level, there's ways of doing it through.

We're not going to have to do the election so that we won't have kids whining down.

But the thing that's gone all off the wall is that Larry went out and announced his 5 billion.

to December 31st without consulting with anybody here, or they didn't know what to do with me, and that's what the press reported about us.

And so it's like, you're a kind of problem maker.

You may get, well, you can put that into a foreign policy question, couldn't you?

That's budget, because it is war in Vietnam.

It's just foreign policy.

Well, that's what I would do unless we feel like that.

I don't think it is.

I think they need to work it out and then knock it down bureaucratically rather than knock it down.

If you knock it down, you're going to get paid.

It's worth the pay.

This is part of the problem here, and I agree with you.

Henry would be stomping around with a gun.

He has to do it his own way, but he's working on it.

He's stomping around.

Now, the other bit of interesting news, which is good, is that McGregor had a session with Wilbur Mills and John Burns yesterday afternoon.

And Mills said he will not prevent any extraneous amendments

the death ceiling fell and considers the social security increase which the church is going to put on it in the Senate an extraneous amendment and he will not take it.

And he's prepared to bottle the bill up and if it comes in from the Senate with that amendment on it, he will hold it in committee.

And he will not put it out of committee.

He'll hold it right on through the expiration of the debt ceiling and everything else.

Sure.

And then of course.

He will join, and Long, of course, takes the same view.

Don't let anything muddy it up.

And he says, you've got the longs, because you have the up and down on that.

Don't let the Congress get you into thinking that Congress isn't about to let the debt ceiling go off the hook.

So what do you want me to say about that?

At that point, I think you'd probably say you want to clean the debt ceiling.

I don't know.

If they don't have an answer, we'll get one.

No, no, don't.

Christ, I don't want to rush in here.

The last part of this stuff, they can't.

The other point that Mills told them is that he will not take a Social Security increase of any kind at any level, 20% or 10% now, 10% later, or anything else, unless it provides for funding and for funding on a permanent basis, not a trust fund basis.

In other words, he will insist upon a tax increase

to go with the Social Security increase in the same piece of notice, or he won't take the Social Security increase.

Now, they're not sure he'll hang tight on that, but McGregor said he was totally unequivocal, positive in the way he said it yesterday, so he felt we were in pretty good shape on that one, too.

Yeah.

go to the final vote in the House today, we'll carry two to one.

Yeah.

And it'll be built as an exit victory.

Yeah.

What are the cross questions, sir?

I'm not sure.

You gotta take the positive, because the whole show has to be very close up there.

You're gonna have a lot of supporters.

You saw the daily, the report on daily at the Mayor's Congress.

He went all out.

And apparently, it was super effective.

We had the votes before that.

Incidentally, Pete Wilson has turned into a real star.

He was our cleanup hitter.

They had five Democrats on it, but Bubba conceded.

He was our plan.

He was also our serve, our coordinator.

As in, all our guys who have been down there working the conference say that he really came through.

He did a hell of a job in his speech, but he also did a superb formatting.

Yeah, totally reversed what was interesting.

That's why the times that were headed last year, the program, the right column program was very well.

This time they dropped it down.

They put it in the first place below the fold on the first page.

And what they said to every person, I mean, Jesus Christ, they might just fall apart.

Yes.

But anyway, what I was going to say, that's a hell of a change in the opinion.

It's a change in the mayor's opinion.

And it's a strong, what our guys said is that Pete's work had locked it up.

We had about a two to one vote in favor of Nixon.

They suspended the rules to let Daley speak, because they had already done the five speakers.

Daley demanded the court to suspend the rules on the 21st program.

They suspended the revised rule and let Daley speak.

And Daley gave this impassioned plea, shouting, and she says, I'll do anything to get a Republican president out of the White House.

But by God, he's our president.

war you know he's doing the right thing he's getting us out of the war and for god's sake stand behind the president and just brought down the rafters and this is a rizzo deserves some credit for that rizzo

The thing that's exciting to me about this is that it's evidence, little bits and pieces, that we've got some machine working that's actually working on the Democratic side and on the Republican side at the sort of gut political level where we always seem in the past to have been helpless.

Or you remember Bob, even?

Even our coverage of such asshole organizations in the Republican government is common.

Every time one was held, the story was virtually always negative.

The last year, we turned that around.

No, those locked.

But remember, we used to send, well, basically, we have to face the record.

We sent what?

We sent a job.

We sent other things.

And we just don't know how to play the game.

We've got a better team now.

We really do.

And it's just damn encouraging to see that.

But don't you agree also that it helps?

Oh, of course it does.

Don't you think so?

There's no question.

And this thing, now they're reading enormous significance into the fact that Daley just met with McGovern.

And coming right off, practically right off the meeting with McGovern, Daley goes down to the mayor's conference and just knocks the balls off of McGovern's war position.

that says, for God's sake, stand behind our president.

That leaves McGovern in a pretty crappy place.

He did the summit work one day.

Very sick.

Clark says that when he called, and I called him, and left him an understatement.

I said, Mike.

He said, good morning, Mr. President.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

You come out from understatement.

You have not been really up to par at all.

You can't do much.

You can't do anything.

Let's start.

All right.

That's good.

Gallop.

0-2-6-1-2-9-1.

They're going to release the presidential popularity on Sunday.

It'll be 60-32.

That headline will be the president's popularity remains high.

They're also going to try on Easter.

They'll have those.

They said 61.

That's what they had last time.

That's pretty damn good.

It's not consistent with it.

It's not even that significant.

The other one's 61.32.

It's 61.32.

Like, no, no change.

Well, you dropped the announcement.

Maybe we dropped it.

I mean, even so, by the convention, we dropped 55.

The point is interesting, because the other was right in the flush with the Sullivan announcement in the middle of it.

This is now, with Russia two weeks behind us, and that's on the 19th.

The 19th, just before the New York crime network.

Yes, when the beverage guy was in arms.

And he should recover quite a bit.

I'm not so sure of trial.

I don't know.

I just can't believe it.

Harris was there, though.

He was there.

He was after Russia?

Yeah.

He was a week after Russia.

Well, 10 days, I think so.

No, he came after the Russia.

He came the weekend.

The weekend, not the weekend we got back from Russia.

The following weekend.

Yeah.

June 8th.

So he's only a week before that.

I don't think he's going to show Gallup and show a hell of a lot of people.

But we have to stay over anyway a couple of days.

We'll have to stay over for a good sentence anyhow.

What?

There's a good sentence for other things.

I'm not going to be back before that.

Roy Wilkins was talking to Carol yesterday.

He said, I just want you to know that I have...

There are very great policy differences in this administration.

You're absolutely wrong on busing.

I think you're wrong on this welfare defense.

Yeah, but I would like you to know that the government is scared to do that.

Now, John told me a little about it.

Why he scared you?

I don't know.

I don't know that he wanted anything done.

What do you think?

I think that a guy like Wilkins, who is an advocate and all that, is nonetheless basically fairly intelligent.

He's a very intelligent guy.

Wilkins is very intelligent.

And I can't think that anybody who's intelligent can help what he's scared about because he knows he's going to go so far he's going to screw everything up.

They know that the world inspects blacks.

They know.

Well, they disagree with you on a question.

They think you're wrong, and they honestly do.

And they don't think you've done enough on housing and nutrition and everything like that.

And they know you never will.

But they also know, they can't say it publicly, but they know you've done a hell of a lot more in terms of actual progress than anybody else has ever even thought of doing.

And that I'm fair.

And that you're fair.

You've done something and then we've done something like, you know, this little program of private enterprise marketing.

Well, and they know what you tell them.

At least if you say you're against busing and fight for it, you don't say, I'm for busing and then make sure it gets killed somewhere.

And also, we provided the jobs for them.

We provided them.

We've done a lot of good things for them.

So really, if you were a Negro, you would be like they are.

What they did last time, the card, you know, she didn't move from the card.

and this was three hours, of course, sort of a pocketbook of sentences, and it's supposed to have a picture, a story, and a carton of stone, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper, and a carton of paper,

You look at that period in our history, and how brutal it was, you know, and there are two sides to this, and there are red men.

That's why the wall is very vicious, and it's going to be against us, and all the red men will go around and stir up people, and it's a terrible hatred, and it's a bad, bad attitude, and it's going to be the old men who are responsible.

Well, we all have anti-pollution integration.

We've argued that well.

That's the other thing, because when the demagogues do a cold play, the demagogues tell these people, you know, jobs now, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And all of a sudden, they start a mess.

And that's where it's the white stuff.

So it's reverse and reverse.

So it's very important to have a moderate course in a personal way.

You never have any, you know, you never have...

the issue that here you have a pregnant woman with a downer on it.

Now the other thing, of course, is the new vaccines and the new education.

Blacks go on trial in elevators, and they throw it in throughout the schools, and put it behind the classmates.

And the blacks have a significant problem in catching up, because black men have been in jail a hell of a long time.

The blacks have been in jail a hell of a long time.

It is 10% of the students, say this about many kids, Midwestern, Southern, High School, and so forth, that go to a school like Harvard or Princeton.

A white kid goes to class on her own in Barrier High School in the center of Iowa.

The second fourth kid over there goes to Harvard, and so forth, and so forth, and then he ends up in a class, and so forth,

I saw that happen in one of the last few weeks.

Everybody was, the stars in America, they were all fighting to camp an edge.

All the English people called it an edge.

But I did not just camp a blue, I camped a blue.

And the grades, yeah, well, it was a terrible blow.

There was a small town in San Diego, the bomb, and they got on a bad track.

Thank you.

Some don't have it.

Some simply have the ability to go so far.

They have a hell of a lot of guys, for example, that can be a very effective mayor in the common.

But it might not be a good mayor in New York.

The problem is that here it's a whole business.

black, white, and still in space, but there is a problem, a genetic problem.

Genetically, it's the cause of life.

It's a blame.

You can't ever say it.

It's too bad you can't say it.

Face up to that and deal with it realistically.

You'd be a hell of a lot better off.

That's right.

And then deal with the problem.

Genetically, you've got a real problem there.

But rather than blaming it on somebody else,

rather than blaming it on the President of the United States?

Look, for Christ's sake, come right down to it.

Come right down to it.

Who were more put upon?

The Boston Irish.

So what do they do?

They went into the politics and they went into the church.

So you've got all sorts of Irish cardinals and you've got Irish politicians, right?

So they responded to the President of the United States.

Who, for example, are more discriminated against than the Jews?

People don't like Jews.

People like Herb Ozor and Edison.

I think there's other reasons.

I saw that happen with my class and group.

Everybody was star-struck.

They were all fighting to have an edge.

All the teachers were all going to have an edge.

But I did not just have to lose.

I had to lose grades and wealth.

It was a terrible blow.

All the accounts were shared.

It was a bomb.

They thought it was a bad thing.

It was a public shock for them.

Some don't have it.

Some simply have the ability to go so far.

They have a hell of a lot of guys, for example, that can be a very effective mayor in the common.

But it might not be a good mayor in New York.

The problem is that here's the whole business is that

black, white, and silver, and spade, that there is a real problem, a genetic problem.

Genetically, it's the cause of the problem.

That's the way it is.

We can't always say it, but it's true.

It's too bad you can't say it.

Face up to that and deal with it realistically, and you'll be a hell of a lot better off.

That's right.

And then deal with the problem.

Genetically, you've got a real problem there, but rather than blaming it on slavery,

Rather than claiming it on purpose, right?

Look for Christ.

Come right down to it.

Who were put upon?

The Boston Irish.

So what did they do?

They went into the politics and they went into the church.

So you've got all sorts of Irish cardinals and you've got Irish politicians, right?

So they responded to the president's amendment.

who, for example, are more discriminated against than the Jews.

Now, God damn it.

People don't like Jews.

There's people like Herb Ozor and Edison.

I think there's no difference between the two of them.

But what does the Jew do?

Well, of course, the Jew will replace him.

He's already asked himself, not like people against him, but like himself.

Nevertheless, he should look at himself as fault.

Nevertheless.

The Jew has responded to discrimination, not by becoming more inferior, but becoming superior to those who discriminate against him.

That's because he has the equipment to do that.

That's my question.

There is equipment there.

And the black, the black compounds it.

Some blacks have the equipment.

But some of them, the blacks generally at this time do not develop it at all due to the fact that they are told

that the reason for their failure is not lack of equipment, but it's due all of them.

So every black person has equipment, but it's because of the fact that he is very long.

Because of that, slavery, prejudice, and harassment, society owes him not only equal opportunity, but above equal opportunity, and pushing along.

And that's where you're doing the discernment.

You're putting him beyond where he's able to perform competitively with others with the light.

What can I do to help?

And you've got to give this question to the client.

They've got to give this question to the client.

Absolutely.

From a political standpoint, they're reliable.

From a financial standpoint, we don't need them.

Don't worry about the finances.

Frankly, I think maybe we ought to find a way to give the $10 million back on the campaign.

To really keep that part of it.

We'll pay the $10 million.

I guess we'll wait.

Those are things that we have nothing to do with.

I noticed there was a thing yesterday, a guy in Bethlehem Steel or something like that who said he was launching a big program of businessmen speaking out, you know, traveling and spending their time.

They've got a campaign against McGovern.

I sort of think it's against McGovern.

I'd rather have it against McGovern.

Why are we against McGovern?

Because for us, it doesn't do any good to say there's 20 richest men in America for Nixon.

They think we're all the same.

They ought to say we're against McGovern and leave out the business reasons and say why these tax proposals would hurt the middle classes.

It would hurt our defenses and all that sort of thing.

You agree with me on that?

I sure do.

Absolutely.

I just think they've got to be told.

That's why I told you.

What is it that we can control if we ever got that position done in this way?

I think you've just said it, but I think I've approved it.

I've approved it.

And I'm not going to sit up there and talk.

I know what all the problems are.

It's hard to approve those rules.

I know that some people with religious

That's fine for it for other reasons.

And that's perfectly honorable.

That's what bothers me about this.

I may be wrong.

I actually suspect that they are intentionally trying to destroy all this so that it gets past coal so that then after you've done with coal, they can say, well, did you get to it now?

I've already stated the position.

I think we're in a bureaucratic stall on purpose.

And...

Because I blew it open at the staff meeting this morning again because I purposely did it by indirection.

I jumped on one person because it was supposed to be out on a date.

It's an OMB letter.

It was supposed to be out Tuesday morning and he got back.

And I said, here it is Thursday morning.

One person says, I didn't even know there was supposed to be one until 3.30 yesterday afternoon when you're coming to your office calling me up.

I said, John, we're supposed to be putting this at Iowa Field and they followed that.

John said this morning.

He had approved it.

It was all set to go.

They were backfitting it to yesterday so that it wouldn't look like it's under today.

And, uh...

Now look, I am not, I am not going to read the fucking paper.

They're not even doing it on paper.

They're just doing the O.N.D.

that they're in right now.

You just tell Rosenstein, I don't think you can sign it.

Just get signed by one of your brothers.

Get it done, man.

Get it done.

I've been around the track.

I've been walking around this morning.

And apparently they've all agreed to it.

And everybody sat there this morning and said, yeah, it's a good... What are the effectors of it?

It simply says that we...

It says we don't have any objection to this bill.

And the bill provides a lot.

They don't ask for Europe.

The bill provides a lot.

and we feel there's some better ways to do it and we we have some suggestions in the background for modification but there are suggestions that are acceptable nothing's going to happen nothing's going to happen this mail was already indicated there'll be no tax reform legislation this year and he's right and i'm still in the case no problem on it at all that's why we're out of our freaking minds not to do it make the issue

It doesn't matter what the merits are or anything else.

It's something that just doesn't make any difference.

We've got some people who are just opposed to our union and the world doesn't care about them.

Well, I don't mind their being opposed to us.

But the other thing that they should not do is try to insert their political judgment of mine.

I have to make new political decisions.

political disservice, I want the advice, but I don't, I'm an adjunct, the domestic council staff doesn't always fucking ask first base about population.

No, they don't.

Jesus Christ, they were the ones that, you know, that were, went off on, they went off on bussing kids, remember?

Bussing's not an issue.

Not an issue, remember?

They said it really is an issue.

They proved it, they pulled out all their phones.

They also say Catholics don't care about their opiates.

That is...

Well, I don't care.

If I all showed you that 99% didn't care, I wouldn't believe it.

Because you know goddamn well there's 4 million Catholic families with kids in parochial schools, and they care about them, or they don't need them.

I don't care.

There's also a whole lot of people who've got important ones who care about them, and they will come out for you if you're that big, if you're for that big, for no other reason.

If there's no Catholic family in the country that cares, you still got Cardinal Grohl and Cardinal Cook who care.

And if Carter, McCoy, and Cook are putting together an action organization, which they have, and they say they will put that organization behind you if you put this minimal level of action in the middle of it, we're out of our minds not to do it.

There is a squishy quality here.

It runs among the art crowd.

The high strung intellectuals that you run into and you know it.

It's pervasive.

It's what it is.

People work hard.

They overwork.

They drink.

They get out of control.

Many of them, I think, probably in more cases than none, that even the public figures that come that way, like Sandra Wells, are basically both ways.

And she was, if she was, was both ways.

Apparently a lot of people are both ways.

And that, again, as you say, what people do to themselves quietly is up to them.

That's right.

If you're getting back to the sort of legalized way of having sexual marriages, you get...

Thank you.

With regard to this Laird thing, in a way we can say that I can put it off in terms of a more wholesome question.

But Laird made it clear that he was speaking his personal view, and that Laird made that point, that he was speaking his personal view, which is, in a sense, separated his

position for the lighthouse.

I don't think they want you to do anything.

I think they're trying to get a thing worked out, but Larry's a little... Yeah.

Well, I hope that works, so I'm going to clear up this confusion.

Bob, what should the president say if he gets a question on this Laird business and the difference between you and ours and so on?

What about the other, what about the other questions that the $5 billion for me did not celebrate?

I have to mention that the press is going to say, well, Secretary Lerner has said we have to have $5 million more for carrying on the increase for December 30th.

What's your position?

Do you disagree with it?

I don't think that's what I heard you say.

On the first thing he says, the time of the defense could be one, right, for the disarmament.

He says this is a tactical semantic question, and he's being excused in there, when he said that Tom Cumberland, he must go ahead with the strong defense.

to move to phase two itself.

We can't go to phase two without being as strong as we were when we went into phase one.

On the Vietnam money, he said you've got to generalize it, that we've got to meet the increased cost of the enemy invasion.

But that's a, as far as Larry's figures, Larry's offered a reward.

And he said that's a theoretical figure based on a theoretical duration of the war.

And all I can say at this point is we're doing what's necessary to make this work in America.

I can't say that.

I think he got it done.

I wonder what his first foreign policy would say.

I wonder what his first question would be.

I wonder what his first foreign policy would say.

I just have to leave it.

Why don't we have Ziegler?

I mean, who's going to

Thank you.

You almost have to say down when that falls in the category of the question.

That's what I was going to say.

I was going to say whether or not Ziggler's going to say something about it tomorrow.

He's knocked it down.

He can't just say it right.

He's going to have to address himself when he goes up on elimination.

Well, he's knocked it as far as they think they can now, essentially by saying this.

Based on what he said, yes.

I don't know what the way back went on.

He's coming all the way.

Oh, that's a great job.

It really works.

You got it?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Colson, please.

Pops, call me.

Does this monitor the letter now?

If you do, it requires it.

Please change the tax credit .

This one's at 18,000 just to go

Okay.

I'm not sure.

Okay.

I'm not, I'm not going to cut off any.

It's for everybody.

If all agreed I wouldn't change it now.

Chuck said it's okay.

Everybody else has.

This doesn't commit us to anything.

The point is I don't want to restrict it.

It's a very complicated problem.

They get Schultz in on it.

The only value of this letter at this time is to get on record with the Catholics, and this covers what we want with the Catholics.

Nothing's going to happen, so we're going to listen to it now, and we're going to change it.

And I just want to say it.

We're going to walk.

It's very important.

And we can change our position, all our work changes that, but we don't change ours much.

So I heard you say that it's going to be pure.

I understand, and I thought it was good and so forth, but without that, can you protect it?

Our general principal is here, he's sure that he's got a word with us.

He said that what we've got to do is a more practical operation than staff.

I think part of the problem with this is the strategy

You put one other person on it.

I don't know.

It's a campaign.

Writing speech.

If you have eight people writing speech, it'll take you eight days.

If you have one, you get another day.

And that's the way it works, Bob.

And these stats are too goddamn big.

all around the track, over and over again.

We just cracked everybody's minds around, so it's the right people, and they want their ideas to be considered, and then they have to have a meeting.

They have to put people together to work this out, and then they have another meeting, and, you know, 80 minutes, and I know what happens.

I know what happens, but I don't know what they think.

It's just that, you know, I'm trying to get all the seniors to answer.

You know, they say, I can do all that, but I'm trying to get the person to answer that.

Ziegler?

He's so competent that I doubt there's any sign that he's an important assistant.

What I mean, Ziegler has enormous competence beyond, you know, as I can see as he was talking to me yesterday, a competence beyond just being a press man.

He has a lot more than he realizes.

He knows a lot more about the issues and the substance of it.

But he also has a lot of energy.

I mean, as an official, we did read about it.

I won't read it because I know it's a secret.

I know, but he goes through.

That's why he goes through it all the time.

He also knows, this is tough, that's why I don't ever want him to do it.

Right?

Henry Hartman, John Drew, I don't want Cedric Fleissbeck, he's been backed up all the time.

Right?

Yeah, because it's so easy to say, oh, why didn't you say that?

All right, let's suppose we put Henry out there every day to handle the foreign policy questions and the events questions and singularities of the day.

He'd screw up far more than that singularity.

Sure he wouldn't.

He wouldn't because he'd know comments on things, and that'd blow up the story.

Henry doesn't know what a minor deal is.

And he thinks he can dictate to him.

Yeah.

Well, you should have asked me that question.

Yeah.

But he doesn't know many times.

He doesn't know what the hell they're coming at him for.

He doesn't anticipate the next question in case they answer it this way.

You know, ziggers always say, well, I anticipated the question would come this way.

Well, if you do that, they'll come at you this way.

Henry never gets enough.

and gets annoyed that you've raised the house a building.

He says, well, they shouldn't ask that.

The present rate has gone up.

You know, they re-worked on it in a matter of a few weeks.

They re-worked.

He had to do it day in and day out.

He'd go on and starve when he's got a... Oh, yeah, that's right.

And he's super...

He likes assimilating.

Assimilating.

Starving.

That's it.

Yeah.

I guess he held it, right?

Yeah, like he's got it.

Yeah.

in a sense do that having been a newsman and being a reporter in a way that John can't do it.

And also Eisenhower's arms above the battle.

And playing on Eisenhower.

Yeah, the prostrate president didn't want to do that.

I've been in this event and we haven't been very close to the president for many years.

They're all in one of them.

So we've come above that.

I do not have any press conferences for a while.

It's been a good thing, you know, to create some kind of alarm.

They don't like it.

Nevertheless, they got a little of it.

Here, of course, was a crew.

Smart.

And he had the attention to impress the love of his boss.

So how come he'd get the shit out of anybody who, you know, did the love of his boss?

We haven't met him.

We haven't had much love from him.

We're taking what he's got to him.

I mean, I went down there and he called in there.

That's not a very good story.

I guess he is.

He's not straight on that.

He calls him on a storyboard he knows.

Right.

He's got enough of those, you know.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Watergate and Public Relations

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Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on Watergate and Public Relations

AI Summary

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NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on June 22, 1972

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