Nixon, Lanusse & Haldeman on People's Republic of China and Argentina

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On the follow-up thing, we made that an EOB case.

It works just right for us, and then, you know, he's just glad they said they didn't take it.

But we're all a prisoner now.

So he argues that back in October they would have.

So, you know, we've got the record to show that in October they did.

That's what's going on.

On the other hand, even in October, we're going to be able to say that we're providing that with a triple-edged sword.

Okay, I get it.

So, but he's saying now, but the lead thing is that now, as of today, which is all that matters, not what would have been done in October, what will be done now, as of today, they will not take the withdrawal for prison.

So, Muskie's claim has been shot down by their negotiators.

— 58 min 38 s with no transcribed speech —

If this is possible, where is it?

See if you can find it right away and ask me to come down to the President's office, please.

Thank you.

God damn, this looks like a piece of memorandum.

I know.

It goes on forever.

It was supposed to be a 10-minute telephone call.

I don't know why.

He's just trying to cover all the faces.

His point originally was that what you should do is just listen and say, thank you, it's good to hear from you.

Freeze!

Good God, this is personal news for me to say to the secretary-general.

I'm going to give him any way to ask him for his impressions.

I'm going to give him my impressions.

I'm

The only thing they had is just angry shots.

I mean, they should have gone to Flanagan rather than Henry.

Some of you possibly can get economic matters out of it, except we wanted to get this out of economic.

This was, theoretically, if it is AI and metal, you have to put it in the oil bank.

And several other things, and I'm just not sure it's always going to be the economy.

See what I mean?

There's nothing in there except it has to do with those things.

You're going to have a hell of a time getting it out of Henry Shuffler.

Everything that touches economics, you've got to find it rather than Kissinger.

And then finding his job would be to check any political that Kissinger sees.

Because it's fine if you know damn well it's going to check with Connolly and Henry may or may not.

Correct.

This is all right this time.

Well, listen, we turned down, you know, an economic alliance and then got bounced back on diplomatic grounds.

The memorandum.

It was internal politics for a long time.

The memorandum is basically about the IMF.

You know, that's your thing.

It's inevitable.

Sorry.

There's a mix there, but let me say it because he's better organized.

and we'll get it more precisely in Tucker, the more that we can get it to Flanagan rather than, but also before Flanagan ever sends me a memorandum showing two or three abuses and say, not like that, you know.

How did you use one of them?

There is history.

Pete has the same, Pete Blank has the same problem because the things that he deals with are so complex, you know, like that panty girl business that you got.

Did you see that film?

Good God.

That's sort of an old-time classic.

Big wad of stuff on what to do about pantyhose.

I did all the things I could.

I just don't have time to read them.

Whatever it was, I didn't take the line.

I stayed crazy.

A lot of time to lie.

You know, I'm talking about the industry.

Let somebody show you pantyhose.

The pantyhose industry wants to do it.

I think this is...

Yes, sir.

the fellow that Don's son is working with.

So I'm going to get him out of there.

The SEC is about to move in on Vesco with multiple accounts.

Well, I guess you think you have to do something about it.

What are you going to do with him then?

Put him on a...

I'm going to find him a job.

It occurred to me they would send him to Mary.

But that's another thing I've got to talk to Mary about.

He's in Bermuda.

Apparently this week or next week, Mitchell's been working with him and Casey came over and laid it out for him.

And he says, just no, no option.

It's just bad.

And Mitchell agrees, they've got to go.

And so he said, I've got about a week to get the kid out of there.

Well, Marriott's got a hotel in Ancapulco.

It seems to me that we can ask you to take... Well, no, the thing to do, though, is Marriott can't do this on its own.

Is there anything we can do to give him some money or anything to clarify any idea?

No, Marriott can do it.

It's a tax-deductible political contribution.

Sure, Marriott's got a lot of tax other than the grant.

Yeah, Marriott's got plenty.

Their corporation's doing well.

Their stock's soaring upward.

Yeah.

I don't want to talk to Murray and myself about, you know, putting these boys out in the pasture.

You just got to get him out of circulation.

Remember when he went over there, I said, what the hell do they want him for?

We've lucked out so far.

Yeah.

He lucked out because he hadn't done anything yet.

I'll probably be on the surface, and I'm aware.

But we've got to move on that now, and I'll travel.

our own official map with variable fights and things like that, trying to balance Kissinger and Rogers.

And I'm telling you, when I get in that goddamn China trip, that's going to be a job.

Thank God, I was glad to see Bill get out in front of us last week, so he got some good publicity.

But we're not over that.

We're not over that.

I don't know how to say it.

Did you hear about the bit on the briefing over at the State Department?

No, what was this on?

Well, we briefed the wives and the staff.

They had a sub-cabinet and so on.

Henry was on the program.

Did you ever say there wasn't any foreign policy?

Bill called and objected to Henry being on the program to brief on foreign policy in the State Department.

So we had to take him off.

Wow.

So you just didn't have any more.

Do you believe it?

Completely.

No.

That's just too bad that they fired him.

Why did it help him?

Well, did you get a rocket degree before?

Well, we didn't call until the night before, and then we said, finally...

Wait, I've got rockers now, Tuesday, tomorrow morning.

What's tomorrow morning?

That, Captain, leaders.

Oh, yeah, sure.

Is that right?

Yeah, that one.

Yes, sir.

Same on that one.

Right.

Just take the line, you know, to meet the president.

It's fine.

Right.

Henry doesn't, do you know what I mean?

Henry's putting his weight around, too.

Yep.

Speaking of boards, it reminds me that Roger Hull died yesterday.

I noticed that.

Flowers and stuff.

Yeah, he should get a presidential reason.

On that, referring in a personal note, there is, oh, I don't think I can remember.

She wrote us a letter, I'll pull it up.

She came to a church that he couldn't.

Yeah, that I, that I, I mean, although we believe he was seriously injured, we don't know.

I've had to go to California in March, and I thought this...

I thought while I was out there, I would make contacts with Firestone and some of the other swingers in his foundation, get that a lot.

We've got to finish it in a minute.

We already have something happening.

I can wait for two minutes.

No, go ahead right now.

Take a minute now.

No, no, let's go.

Let's finish.

It's all right.

All right, well, I wanted to cover the thing.

We're going to release the press list today for China.

No, no, no, no, no.

I want to do that very specifically.

Well, I'd like to hold everything until Thursday that you can.

We talked about holding everything until Thursday, but I don't, I think that- You have Thursday to get out, right?

But if you don't mind, please don't say that we're going to spend two days in the water.

We're not going to- Don't say that we're going to go to Guam.

Don't say that we'll leave at a certain time.

But you can leave all that out.

The only thing we have to do is we can't release the press list because-

But say that as far as departing time, it will be either Wednesday or Thursday.

Would you say that?

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

I won't move a dime on them.

Good.

What do you mean?

Because I'd like to have something to say when I see them, you know.

Oh, wait.

You can't say Wednesday or Thursday because you told them last week to say it won't be before the 7th.

Are we trying to do that?

We have to do a little space on that.

The departing time is not that 7th.

Right.

But the only thing we're going to do is put up a list of crimes, and for none of you to have that number.

Sure, sure.

Well, that's what I thought you wanted me to read, Mr. Perkins.

Now, on the thing, then I will, but I want to be able to handle everything, and I will indicate that I will brief the press.

Okay.

I'll tell them.

Is that what you thought?

Yes, sir.

That's what we agreed to do, and I'm going to release the committee.

You already told Ron to give it to the candidate.

They need the 10 most likely questions in case I can do this thing.

That's all I wanted in that briefing on this time.

So you figure out what they are, even if you don't get away with it.

But just the ones, and if any will be on other subjects, I'm trying to do it, but that's not going into great detail.

Okay.

And then about subject matter.

That's all.

Go ahead.

Let's finish this.

And I think we'll be able to wrap up the time for our next interview.

It's right outside of your linking to sit.

And I think we'll build right next to Tom Torrance.

This is gonna take 15 minutes, you better, it's that call, you know.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The only thing I can tell him is he'll give his most sympathetic answer.

Oh, I read it.

Most sympathetic answer.

Yes.

Do you believe for it?

Yes.

Hello?

You've got a long letter from Pompidou who's complaining.

Yes.

Please, could you please communicate with President Lanús?

President Nixon is waiting.

Hello?

Could you please communicate with President Lanús?

President Nixon is waiting.

That's inevitable.

This is our concern.

Hello?

Yes, hello, Mr. President.

Uh, very well, Mr. President.

It's a pleasure to be able to talk with you.

Yes, it's a pleasure to hear from you, Mr. President.

And before we go into any other matters, Mr. President, I would like to express my deep personal appreciation for the interest you have expressed in my illness and my practice.

Well, I hope, Mr. President, you are totally recovered because we know you have great responsibilities in your position as head of state in Argentina.

I am grateful for your understanding, Mr. President.

I appreciate, Mr. President, your good wishes and you can be sure that we will do everything we can to make the world a more peaceful place as a result of this visit.

Well, thank you very much, Mr. President, for your good pride and for being sure that we will do everything possible for the world to be a place where there is greater peace in the future.

Also, in connection with the trip, Mr. President, we believe that it contributes a great deal to the breaking down of ideological borders and barriers, and this is an enterprise which the Argentine government has always spoken out of favor in the past.

Well, I greatly appreciate, Mr. President, your support of our initiatives, and you can be sure that all of our initiatives in the world will not be taken at the expense of our friends, our great friends like Argentina.

Thank you very much for your support, Mr. President, and I can assure you that any initiative we take in this trip or any other will not be taken at the expense of our great friends like Argentina.

How old is our, uh, is our, uh, Andrew?

He must be 70 years old.

I don't know who.

I don't know.

I'm not going to see him on Monday night.

On Monday, I'm 70.

Oh, and who is 70?

The man is not your genius.

Mr. President, as I said to you in the delegated October 23 of last year, in which we were speaking of a policy of regional responsibility and of voluntary cooperation, a policy that the Argentine government shares completely, the Argentine Republic, in line with that policy, has decided to normalize its relations with the people of the Republic of China.

We are moving in the direction of a more normal relation with the People's Republic.

We do not expect to have this trip, of course, set up formal recognition, but this trip will contribute to a dialogue between the two countries.

Well, Mr. President, we are naturally approaching a more formal relationship with the Chinese Communist Party.

We do not think that our community culture is the moment to start formal recognition of this republic, but it would have to be as long, as long as the two maices are dialoguing.

And to be specific about this policy, Mr. President, we are actually implementing this policy of our relationship.

Life risks, aren't they?

I saw them lose some.

Really?

Yes, I take it.

I'm sorry, I'm very president, but I'm sorry about it.

Sure.

To go on for another subject, Mr. President, I would like to express my deep satisfaction with the positive progress that has been made by the financial mission headed by Dr. Pignone that we have sent to the United States and to express our appreciation for the very excellent attitude displayed by various officials of the United States government.

Well, I'm keeping in very close touch with Secretary Connolly, who is in charge of this on our part.

And he has told me of the meeting Mr.

Petty, Assistant Secretary, has had with you, with your government.

And we will try to be as hopeful as we can on these matters that are of such enormous importance to the future economic progress of Argentina.

Mr. President, you want to talk to me a little bit?

that is responsible for our government in these issues, and he has mentioned the meeting that the Secretary of State has had with the Argentine government and you can be sure that we will try to help as much as possible in an issue such as this that is so important for the economic future of Argentina.

They put a column next to it and they say, it's SIDI.

And they covered 10 acres inside the project.

That's what they did.

They used a lot of us inside.

Yeah, they had 10 of us.

This now takes place.

If you set up the load...

Mr. President, I will honor your great understanding as to the scope and projections of our Argentine mission.

I would like to add that the success of this mission is of paramount importance, not only because it will contribute greatly to the welfare of Argentina, but it will also broaden the possibilities of cooperation within the Latin American sphere and will thus contribute to the effective exercise of representative democracy and human rights by the standards under which the Inter-American System operates.

Well, we consider Argentina to be one of our strongest and best friends in the world.

We know that Argentina has had some economic difficulties, but we want you, Mr. President, to know that to the extent that we can, within our laws, we want to be of assistance along with the

other members of the international community to Argentina and its attempt to move forward economically.

Yes, Mr. President, we consider that Argentina is one of our best friends that we have in the world and we know at the same time the economic problems that this nation faces and I want you to know that, as long as we can do it within the framework of our laws, we will try to help as much as possible, as well as other members of the international community, to contribute to the progress of the country.

I understand that, Mr. President.

I recognize it's a very, very positive attitude on your part.

And finally, I would like to put in a word here for a plea for a liberalization of reciprocal trade between our two countries and also on a worldwide level.

Well, our concerns are not just economic ones, but we are also interested in our political relations and also the friendship that we traditionally have.

And that is a solid basis for the progress of the economic era, where self-interest is what is primarily what motivates countries.

Yes, our concerns are not only economic, we are also interested in our political relations and also the traditional friendship that has existed between our nations, because with these good political relations it is possible to achieve good economic progress, because naturally a nation does what best suits it.

That's about as far as we would like to send him.

Sure.

What he said was that an individual knowing that we have already ordered something.

Mr. President, I share those viewpoints completely.

I would like to take a word to you now, but reiterating before I do, my cordial and respectful greetings to you on behalf of myself and on behalf of the organization of the United States of America, reiterating our decision to keep up our struggle to maintain the political philosophy which has traditionally characterized Argentina and which has enabled us to maintain friendly relations with a number of countries of the world, notably the United States.

Mr. President, I am delighted to have this opportunity to talk with you on the phone, and I look forward to the time when the two of us can meet personally, because the great country of the South, the great people of Argentina, and the people of the United States of America, the North,

had a long record of friendship and cooperation, and I hope that while you are the president of your country and I am the president of our country, that we can work together for progress within our countries, for progress for the whole American community, the American family, and for peace and friendship in the whole world.

Yes, Mr. President, it has been a pleasure for me to be able to talk to you on the phone and I hope that we have the opportunity to get to know each other personally, because you come from the great nation of the South, representing the great Argentine people, and it is only logical that the great Argentine people can communicate with the representatives of the Argentine people.

of the United States of America, due to our great editorial tradition of friendship and cooperation between our two countries.

I hope that many of you and I will continue to be presidents and collaborate in the future to work together with our respective nations and also within the community of nations of the Western Hemisphere and also in favor of the cause of peace and freedom of the Indian community.

Well, Mr. President, I'm saying farewell to you.

I appreciate it.

This way, we'll be able to both respect the people and the peoples of the American community as a nation, in particular, and also the people of the world today.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

You're free to come.

Thank you, that's a good job.

A little hard to get through, though.

Yeah, I mean, I just have to.

And that film I'll put out, you know, after I do the film, I think.

How long is this meeting with the attorneys?

All you're expecting to do, Mr. President, is to open it.

All you need to do is five, ten minutes at the most.

And that's realistic, five or ten minutes.

They've had it to our absolute potential for this to turn it over to Krogh and Klein to get this to take over.

But another ten or fifteen minutes.

We will not have the Attorney General free.

You haven't called him yet.

He's been canceled out of his schedule.

He's sitting in one room.

That's all right.

You don't need to worry about it.

He wasn't canceled.

That's what you meant.

I saw him on his tweet.

Okay.

I'm sitting with you.

God damn, I'm telling you.

He likes the Colonel, you know.

He's fixing about $500,000 in aid to Pakistan.

Now?

He's in the morning.

Oh, I hate that.

I hate that.

Bob obviously he doesn't really mind how we handle it, and I just went over it with him, and he suggested I write it up.

My first approach, and if I'm asked, I'm just going to say, look, as Bob indicated, he was speaking, he was not speaking for the president, he was speaking for himself, and he made up his point of view very quickly.

And then, in making sure that you get his point of view across, you read what he said that he did not refer to, he specifically did not refer to critics of the war and so forth, but he was referring to those who, when they knew that the president had already, when they were advocating something that they now knew the president was already advocating, that they're continuing that.

See, that's what I think I said.

That's not what he said, but that's what we can say.

Amen.

Well, you can also go from there and say, Bob, obviously, if you read what he's saying, in the context of how he said it, was not suggesting that critics were hoping for the success on the part of the enemy.

What he was saying...

Which they are, of course.

He can't say it.

What he was saying is that the best way to succeed...

It's for the unity behind the proposals that the United States government put out and tried to explain it that way and divert it from the, you know, the...

Okay, what he was saying was that deliberate disunity at this time could only have purpose.

destroying the chances, or leading to the chances of negotiating peace, and could only have the purpose of giving encouragement to the enemy, not to negotiate, that that's what we'll do, and that it was in fact the disunity we were in.

And that anybody could do anything for us.

That's it.

Okay.

We have to keep in mind here, if they press

If they press, then he answers, well, have you talked to the president about this or not?

And can you say to us specifically that the president of the United States, he agrees with what Holtman said or does not agree?

Then I say he's personally, he made it clear, he's expressing personally what he means.

But yes or no, they drive me to that.

Then I can, I think you should say yes.

You agree?

I know that you've talked to me, yes.

No, and that the president's position has always been that there are honest critics of the war, honest critics of the president's peace talks.

And he has no question about that.

And that is the president's position, and that remains his position.

And it's not a question of voting as many.

Bill does not question the motive of any who criticizes peace policies.

It's the program for attempting to bring an end to war, to bring an honorable peace.

President, there's a question over there.

It's the question of the motive that's involved here that you want to knock down.

See, if I don't deal with this now... Oh, I deal with it, sure.

...then you'll get it on Thursday, and I'd rather if you don't... Oh, I think exactly that.

Actually, I think we should knock it down if we have a chance, because that keeps it from building.

We'll be forced to knock it down sooner or later.

Right, right.

Well, I think basically what we're talking...

I'm going to move against this at various levels to see how heated it comes against this.

Yeah, but let me say that your strategy is exactly right.

much better for you to have than for me to have.

That's for you to have to deal with it here.

And that story can earn you a position in the president's home.

That's a problem.

I can say that the home is only referring to some of those who are going beyond the field, but not to those people who honestly disagree and those honest critics.

In other words, there's the question of honest criticism, and then there is the question of

Those who know better, that's where you want to go.

Okay, well, I'm forcing you to resist the presence of the outcome should be the answer.

No, no.

But then building around that, though, these points that we made, not specifically looking for the success of the enemy, you're talking about the police.

When he was talking about the effect of a constantly supporting, of not supporting the peace proposal, the effect of basically supporting the, of not supporting the peace proposal, which is reasonable.

And the effect of supporting the vote can only lead to the success of the end.

And I keep it pretty much.

In terms of just knocking it down, I'm sure, you know, asbestos, but not to get to, not to try to.

And then don't have to.

Or is it really got no intention of, say, oh, man, no intention to question the motives of the Patriots and the Vandals.

He was only talking about the effect of that kind of disunity and ambition to it.

encourages the enemy not to settle.

And then Middlow asked me, well, was he a great friend of his at Muskie?

No, no enemy.

Well, but we're going to have a good line there because he took this on the 28th and Muskie spoke on February the 2nd.

So I hope they have that right off the bat.

Okay, now on this one.

He specifically, I mean, you probably saw it.

He was asked, what about the senatorial critics?

Right, but he went out of his way not to do it.

Well, don't worry about it.

I mean, the way you have it is.

Now, Antoine Pouilly, yesterday, I'm going to simply say there that he, to a great extent, acknowledged everything that the President was saying about the negotiations.

That's right.

I could be very cruel about it.

I think everything they have said supports what we have been saying.

They said last year their demand was we had to guarantee that you wouldn't run in the election.

And...

Well, it is just another version of their saying that we had to change the political structure there.

Did they say that?

That's what they said, yeah.

That's what they said to Barnett.

But what if they asked me, were they willing to separate out the military?

The answer is no.

No, no, because they said, let's, well, even if you read the stories this morning, Ron, it's weird, but they said, we will, if you, we will, we will separate out the two profiles.

You can do the political thing.

The political thing was always there.

Then I can move up to 92 again.

That's right.

They always had their May 31st proposal.

But I wouldn't get into all that much detail.

I would just say we stick by what we said.

They had never been willing to separate it.

And they're just engaging in various... Now, how would you handle this question?

This is the last one.

Yeah.

If you want, we said yesterday that had we been willing to deal with military issues long before...

He didn't say that.

He said...

What they wanted, had we dealt with the military issues alone, Chu couldn't have been re-elected.

And had we agreed that Chu wouldn't run in the election, then this would have brought about... His point was that had we made the military deal alone, that Chu couldn't have been re-elected.

No, no, but he also said that in addition we had to promise him that Chu wouldn't stand for re-election.

So all they were doing was giving us some ways

Besides, believe me, our record is so overwhelming on this that if we are forced into it, they just never offer the military deal.

Well, if I'm asked that question, if someone doesn't understand... Why don't we answer?

No, no, no.

Secretary Sid Rogers said no, and a careful check in the... Well, as I said in my... Well, let's go back to my speech.

I said no.

They have always insisted, in one way or another, on a political condition.

Nixon, Lanusse & Haldeman on People's Republic of China and Argentina

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Also recorded on February 7, 1972

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Nixon, Lanusse & Haldeman on People's Republic of China and Argentina

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on February 7, 1972

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Cite this conversation